Praying Souls

[N/A Gone]

In reading your posts I am sure you have an earnest heart to be faithful, but I see a very underdeveloped understanding of sanctification

You are so close on so many count friend. Let me hope to clarify,

[quote]There are many misconceptions of purgatory, but the biggest is what catholics really belief. The doctrine is simple

Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular "place" in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp[/url][/quote]

So, lets flow it like this

Thesis: Purgatory is a real state of being in which unpurified souls are detached from worldliness, namely sin and inclination to sin, and are purified in order to enter paradise.

Argument:

1. Those who repent of sin are still attached to sin (even St. Paul admits that he sins after his repentance, and Ananias in Acts 5 committed a sin agains the Holy Spirit after he had already been a member of the Christian community). This is the sanctification as we spoke about above
2. Some of them die in this state (such as Ananias), but are to be saved.
3. Revelation says that nothing unclean shall enter Heaven (Rev 21:27).
4. Therefore, it is of a logical necessity that some sort of further purification occurs after death for sin.

Now, the only thing you could disagree with is the second premise, by saying that those who die in that state go to hell, but since it is clear from human experience that we all sin and quite often, that position would very terribly negate God's mercy.

So the conclusion is accurate and necessary.

However, there is one more clue to purgatory. In 2 Timothy 4:16-18, we see a great deal of past tense language. St. Paul tells the reader to pray for Onesiphorus, that the Lord may give him mercy (which he says twice, once referring to his household, presumably in mourning, and once adding "on that day," which we know from Scripture to be a common phrase referring to the day of judgment). Therefore, St. Paul is praying that Onesiphorus may be shown mercy in being judged by God. However, St. Paul also speaks about him as if he were a very holy man. Why would a holy man need to receive mercy after death in a OSAS theology? It simply doesn't add up. He needed mercy because, as is the case with almost all holy people, he still wasn't perfectly purified. Yes, I insist that purgatory be called mercy. Punishment is pulled away from the soul in purgatory, not added to it. The soul in purgatory is not suffering from God inflicting wounds, but from God's healing of wounds (everyone knows that ripping off band-aids hurts). Purgatory is a type of mercy from God. I have been told by a few people that a lot of Protestants don't like the idea of purgatory because they don't like the thought of pain being associated with God. Well, the pain is because of us, not because of God.

So yes, life as a believer is the start of the sanctification process, but it needs to finish before we can enter into the divine. CS lewis was a believer in purgatory and he understood it as a stripping away of the "fallen parts" I personally embrace purgatory. If we are not pure we will be burnt up. If not for purgatory we will never enter the heavenly realm.

I respect where you are coming from. Did you read both of the links I gave you?

[kujo]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1208318' date='Mar 5 2007, 12:09 AM']Eternity is timeless, so God can bring your future you into existance immediately, here in time and in eternity. All that really matters if you believe that or not. As you have faith, be it on to you.[/quote]

You are right on the money here, FT. God is TIMELESS and, thus, His will is carried out in a [i]timeless[/i] manner; however, if we are to examine things through the fractured-prism of our sense of time, things that, to God, happen "immediately" could, to us humans, play out over months, years, decades, millenia, etc. That's why it's funny when we get all crazy about putting deadlines on our prayers ("God, I need to know....by Monday!"). If we are truly discerning and pining for His will, then we must be open to the fact that God does things at the exact moment when they are needed--not a moment sooner, not a moment later.

Purgatory, as well as heaven and hell, shouldn't be viewed in terms of time. It's over when it's over...and who cares how long it is anyway? The fact that we, the faithful, are eagerly anticipating our arrival into Heaven should sustain us through our troubles here on earth and through whatever purgation is necessary to prepare us for His glory.

I am glad to read that you are at least open to the concept...shows a heck of a lot more maturity than, say, Budge, who blindly-rejects any sort of open discussion and exchange of ideas. (Sorry, Budge, but you get on my nerves. But I love you.)