Call No Man Master Or Magisterium

[Budge]

Bible SAYS NO MAGISTERIUM!

:[b] 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and[u] ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him[/u][/b]



So Catholics do you believe this verse or do you not?


Here is another verse to show you that Jesus Christ never meant for there to be a Magisterium.

[b]
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters>: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

[/b]

Jesus is saying right there, that the apostles are NOT to be called MASTERS.

Now lets look what the word MAGISTERIUM means...

from dictionary.com

[quote]

mag·is·te·ri·um Audio pronunciation of "magisterium" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mj-stîr-m)
n. Roman Catholic Church

The authority to teach religious doctrine.


[Latin, the office of a teacher or other person in authority, from magister, [b]master[/b]. See magisterial.[/quote]


Of ALL the names to pick!

Edited March 20, 2007 by Budge

[thessalonian]

If noboby is supposed to be taught then I guess James and Paul contradict Jesus.

James said that few should be teachers in James 3:1.

Paul said:

Chapter
Book

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11: And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

Now if some are teachers there must be someone they are supposed to be teaching. So I guess those people violate the command somehow. This is just a quick scan. All I have time for.

Your inability to reconcile these things is not surprizing budge. You don't see the depth and breadth of scripture but use it as a club against the Catholic Church from which it sprang forth. You will forever bang your head against a wall.

Blessings

[Budge]

Nothing wrong with teachers but Jesus is supposed to be your only MASTER.

not men...
[b]
~{Matt.20:25}~
Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know
that the princes of the Gentiles
exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great
exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be among you..[/b]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1216360' date='Mar 20 2007, 07:30 AM']Bible SAYS NO MAGISTERIUM!

:[b] 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and[u] ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him[/u][/b][/quote]


[quote name='Budge' post='1216373' date='Mar 20 2007, 08:33 AM']Nothing wrong with teachers but Jesus is supposed to be your only MASTER.[/quote]

So you don't believe in 1 John 2:27 when it says you don't need teachers, because you say there's nothing wrong with teachers, but you are against us for having masters?

Anyway, Budge, "magister" can mean "master," but it can also mean "teacher." It's the Latin word for both. You yourself said there's nothing wrong with teachers. We simply have a teaching office in the Church.

[quote]not men...
[b]~{Matt.20:25}~
Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know
that the princes of the Gentiles
exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great
exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be among you..[/b][/quote]

Your translation isn't completely accurate. Jesus adds that Gentile rulers make their authority felt and "lord it over," implying that they push people around. The Magisterium doesn't do that in the sense that Jesus implies. Jesus said that He would give us shepherds; sometimes shepherds have to push their sheep to get them to go in the right direction. That's not the same as making the sheep run here and there and jump through hoops just because the shepherd can make them do it. The Magisterium, likewise, doesn't do that (or shouldn't, but we can't always have the ideal, can we?).

God bless,

Micah

[Groo the Wanderer]

Jeez Budgie..now yer resurrecting your old posts. You posted this tripe last year....same tired spewage...same tired arguments...same faulty personal and private misinterpretation of Scripture as last time.

Find some new material....please?

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1216373' date='Mar 20 2007, 08:33 AM']Nothing wrong with teachers but Jesus is supposed to be your only MASTER.

not men...
[b]
~{Matt.20:25}~
Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know
that the princes of the Gentiles
exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great
exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be among you..[/b][/quote]

How many times are you going to flog this topic, Budge? Jesus gave the Apostles teaching authority. Deal with it.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[RezaMikhaeil]

I can't believe you opened this can-o-worms. You're in for the debate for your life.

Reza

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1216387' date='Mar 20 2007, 10:50 AM']How many times are you going to flog this topic, Budge? Jesus gave the Apostles teaching authority. Deal with it.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.[/quote]Well said.

[Mr.Cat]

"[i]Call none your father upon earth[/i]"... Neither be ye called masters. The meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers, ([b]1 Cor. 4. 23:15[/b]) and for our masters and teachers.

"[i]You have no need[/i]"... You want not to be taught by any of these men, who, under pretence of imparting more knowledge to you, seek to seduce you ([b]ver. 26[/b]), since you are sufficiently taught already, and have all knowledge and grace in the church, with the unction of the Holy Ghost; which these new teachers have no share in.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote]Clearly, Christ did not literally mean that we can call NO man father, for in the sacred scriptures many people called "Father". For example in the Old Testament persons with governmental of spiritual authority in the Old Testament are addressed as "father." Priests (Jdg 17:10; 18:19) and prophets (2 Ki 2:12; 6:21) as well as Kings were sometimes called "father" as a sigh of respect. The Governor of Jerusalem was called "Father of those who live in Jerusalem" (Isa. 22:21). The scriptures tell us that Joseph became a "Father to Pharaoh" (Gen. 45:8).

In The New Testament, Christ himself called Abraham [Mk 11:9-10]and David [Lk 16:24] "Father". Both Stephan [Acts 7:2] and Paul [Acts 22:1] called the members of the Sanhedrin "Fathers". Paul, Called Abraham [Rom 4:1] our "forefather" and later referred to himself our "'Father in Christ" [1 Cor. 4-15]. Through out the NT epistles, God's OT people were often referred to as "our fathers" in a spiritual sense (1 Cor. 10:1; Heb. 1:1; cf. Rom. 9-11). The Apostle John called early Christian leaders "father" [1 Jn. 2:13].[/quote]

[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_115.htm"]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_115.htm[/url]

[RezaMikhaeil]

Really this is just a common protestant rhetoric and the reason why so many Protestants interpret the scriptures differently. Not everything in the scriptures is to be applied to those that read it. This particular scripture was said specifically to the Apostles. I know Protestants that apply the powers [to bind and loose] that were specifically given to St. Peter to themselves [IE: every believer in Jesus Christ was given these powers] completely ignoring the context.

Reza

[theculturewarrior]

We can't call anyone Rabbi, so we should probably do away with education. Oh, yeah, and you're now on a first name basis with your physicians and professors. We can't call anyone master, so now were on a first name basis with our teachers, except we did away with teachers, because we did away with rabbis. But don't call anyone mister, whatever you do.

And I guess we can't call anyone our father anymore. Sorry, Bill. I only have one Father now.

Edited March 20, 2007 by theculturewarrior

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' post='1216565' date='Mar 20 2007, 02:36 PM']And I guess we can't call anyone our father anymore. Sorry, Bill. I only have one Father now.[/quote]

[Budge]

[quote]Not everything in the scriptures is to be applied to those that read it. This particular scripture was said specifically to the Apostles.[/quote]

Actually I believe it applies to all Christian believers.

The sad thing is, i asked this the other day, what role does the Holy Spirit play in your life as a Catholic? When it seems that He is reserved only for the APOSTLES and your "apostolic successors" to lead THEM into truth and NOT YOU.

[jeffpugh]

Where did we say that Ms Budge?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1216661' date='Mar 20 2007, 06:50 PM']Actually I believe it applies to all Christian believers.

The sad thing is, i asked this the other day, what role does the Holy Spirit play in your life as a Catholic? When it seems that He is reserved only for the APOSTLES and your "apostolic successors" to lead THEM into truth and NOT YOU.[/quote]
Actually, I received the Holy Spirit at Baptism. So did everyone who had a valid Baptism. By that gift of the Holy Spirit, the Love of God poured into our hearts, we are justified and converted to God through the action of the Holy Spirit, with whom we are collaborators. Though I often fail to keep Him in mind (mea culpa), He is within me, opening my eyes to grace when I am willing to have them opened, and allowing me to be one with Christ in the glory of God the Father. Thank you, Budge, for allowing me to express my appreciation for the Holy Spirit, who guides me to follow the sayings of His teachers, the bishops, to whom He has revealed the Truth through Divine Revelation, allowing me also to partake in that Truth by following their instruction.

God bless,

Micah

[jeffpugh]

Good call Michah :

[Maggyie]

In my college Latin course, our professor had us call him "Magister Andrews." I loved him because he was a great [b]teacher[/b] - in other words, a wonderful [i][b]magister [/b][/i]- and because he gave me an A. In that order, of course.

By the way, this was a course in classical Latin, not ecclesiastical Latin. Magister Andrews was not part of any Catholic conspiracy

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1216661' date='Mar 20 2007, 05:50 PM']Actually I believe it applies to all Christian believers.

The sad thing is, i asked this the other day, what role does the Holy Spirit play in your life as a Catholic? When it seems that He is reserved only for the APOSTLES and your "apostolic successors" to lead THEM into truth and NOT YOU.[/quote]

I never said that the Holy Spirit was reserved strictly for the Apostles, what I said was that certain aspects that Jesus spoke to the Apostles [check the context], were meant just for them [IE: St. Peter was given the authority to bind and loose, not everyone of the apostles and not everyone of the believers, it was strictly given to him]. Therefore, when Jesus said "call no man father", it was said strictly to the Apostles and therefore if put inside of the proper context, it only applies to them [as St. Paul told Timothy to call him Father], not to mention the proper context as a whole [as others have mentioned] is referencing a higher spiritual calling.

If you reject this context, and continue to approach the scriptures as Jesus saying it to everyone and not just the Apostles [and in the case of St. Peter, Jesus saying it solely to St. Peter], then you're being guided by the Holy Spirit in doing so and are implying your own context within the scriptures, despite their clear meaning and purpose.

Reza

[Budge]

[quote]The sad thing is, i asked this the other day, what role does the Holy Spirit play in your life as a Catholic? When it seems that He is reserved only for the APOSTLES and your "apostolic successors" to lead THEM into truth and NOT YOU.[/quote]

Do you believe this verse APPLIES to YOU PERSONALLY or NOT?

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I believe because Rome emphasizes the Holy Spirit dealing with their EXPERTS--clergy, rather then the individuals in the church, Roman Catholics have been denied even the GIFTS of the Spirit.

When are Catholics ever preached to on Discernment? or following the promptings of the Holy Spirit?

No you poor folks are told to follow men.