Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Prove to me, without scripture (since I don't believe in it), that the Catholic Church is the only true religion, that Jesus was God, and all the other stuff you believe in. If it's absolute truth, and if it's the only true path, then it must be easy to prove, because surely a merciful God wouldn't make the only true way to salvation something difficult to believe in. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Why do you need proof? Just listen to your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'm not even sure I have a soul. I know for certain that I have a brain, which is why I need proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Nathan what you have asked is impossible. People will try, maybbe some will quote Auquinas...but proving the Church without Sacred Scripture is a bit like [innsert analogy]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 *aquinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Then I'm not sure how the Church expects non-Christians to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 speech on top of dUST's answer I would like to add the following: you're asking something finite to prove the infinite even in math and physics that's impossible the finite can merely indicate the infinite you want proof catholicism is true go to a catholic church assuming there's one by you that still has an unlocked door and sit in a pew that's as close to the tabernacle as you dare and in the relative quiet of your own mind and heart ask God, if He exists, to show you that He's there and that He loves you. then comes the hard part... you wait... for a minute, an hour, a day, a lifetime... but you then have to look for how He's gonna do it, if we're right then in the past He's used everything from huge pillars of fire to the whispering of the wind you've got to be vigilant enough to see it but if we're right He'll do it in a way you understand when you're ready here's a bigger challenge if you think you can handle it, take up Pascal's wager go talk to the nearest priest and he'll be able to tell you more about what will be necessary for you... peace and I sincerely hope you're up to my challenges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 it's impossible for a non-Christian to believe, on one level cause that's a paradox as soon as you believe you're Christian and on another level because the message of the Cross is foolishness to outsiders :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 So basically, you all have no answers except feelings (which are condemned as an inauthentic way of discerning truth in another thread started by another Catholic)? That seems awfully inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 not feelings... faith is not a feeling it is an action of the soul transcending feelings.. sometimes my feelings make me HATE the Church, completely dispise it, yet i continue with faith and believe in the Church. my faith is not affected by my feelings, and thus it has been proven to me that my faith is not a feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 But why should I have faith in that which cannot be proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus' Little Bride Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Faith remains when all your feelings are dried up and withered away, or when they tell you the Truth isn't worth searching for: it's too much work for your brain, let alone your hypothetical soul. Faith and Reason are the two wings by which man ascends to God, Pope John Paul II says. A bird cannot fly with one wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 not feelings... faith is not a feeling it is an action of the soul transcending feelings.. sometimes my feelings make me HATE the Church, completely dispise it, yet i continue with faith and believe in the Church. my faith is not affected by my feelings, and thus it has been proven to me that my faith is not a feeling. yet, faith is aided by logic, reasoning, and the senses. God gave us everything we need to know him. come on pham, we must provide answers w/ more substance, especially to a long-lost brother. i am challenged by this request, and i wish to respond accordingly. however, time currently does not permit. expect more from me later. come on pham...........step it up while i'm in class pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speech Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) But why should I have faith in something for which there is no shred of proof? Edited January 27, 2004 by Speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 it's supported by many facts, maybe not completely proven, but confirmed throughout history. in the fact that the Church is the oldest existing institution (it's more than an institution, but yeah) there is absolutely no man made institution on earth that is 2000 years old, theres somethin special here. also, Fatima, the thousands of witnessess... the stigmata, well i guess you can't prove that in like, the medievil saints, but St. Padre Pio was examined by a doctor who couldn't find an explanation. the tilma of Juan Diego has never been explained by science, obstitritions, optomitrists, and all sorts of experts have examined it. it is impossible for it to have been painted by human hand. the shroud of Turin, that image is completely unexplained. the blood type found in it is AB, the same type found in the miracle of Lanciano when the bread and wine actually appeared to be the body and blood and science examined it, it's human blood and flesh from the human heart, it has been completely incorrupt for many centuries. ummm... history has never proved the Bible wrong. how bout the amazing number of conversions from the time of the apostles, without any military advance like the Muslims or anything like that how bout the amazing number of conversions completely offsetting the reformation for Our Lady of Guadeloupe. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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