Budge, I Have A Question For You?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

How do you define dishonesty? How do you define lying? Do you think it's ever okay to lie, misrepresent, or deceive another person?

[Budge]

You are getting my sincere beliefs here.

I know Catholics often will claim the Christian is "lying" when simply I see things very differently then you do.

[Brother Adam]

Even if I sincerely believe that the person who follows Budgism (it's a new religion, something that mimics Christianity) worship Mary, if Budgists don't believe it, then I'm being dishonest.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1227367' date='Apr 2 2007, 03:43 PM']You are getting my sincere beliefs here.

I know Catholics often will claim the Christian is "lying" when simply I see things very differently then you do.[/quote]
It's dishonest to say that we believe something you know we don't. Objectively, that's a lie. You refuse to acknowledge that we know our faith better than you; you even refuse to acknowledge that the Magisterium knows the Catholic faith better than you. Because you say that you know the Catholic faith better than those who define it, we can be sure that you do not know it at all. If the person who defines a set of believe says something, then you have to take their word for it. Otherwise, you yourself acknowledge that you are using strawman fallacies.

[KnightofChrist]

Her Avatar, and signature is a outright lie. She has been told this yet she continues the lie.

[Mateo el Feo]

Budge is "lying for the lord." Which lord is the "Father of lies"? LOL

[jeffpugh]

heh. Personally, Budge is trying to catch flies with barrels of vinegar...

[Budge]

Number 10 is split into 2 in the Catholic commandments, why are TWO numbers needed for coveting?

I am not lying.

Here is the Catholic list in visual form.

NO MENTION OF GRAVEN IMAGES.

[img]http://www.ascensionpress.com/shop/ProdImages/10Commlg.jpg[/img]

THIS CATHOLIC CHART BEARS OUT WHAT IVE SAID...

[img]http://www.catholicapologetics.net/images/Ten_Commandments.jpg[/img]

Graven images is left out, and number 10 is split into two!

[Brother Adam]

Of course coveting is split into two commandments. Or do you think of your wife as worth nothing more than your material possessions? If you think your wife should be your personal property, you may want to check out the Muslim religion. There is no place for that in Christianity.

"You shall have no strange gods before me"

What does that mean?

That we are commanded not to commit idolatry.

How does an Israelite commit idolatry?

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image"

[Mateo el Feo]

Budge, this is just more "bearing false witness." You should be ashamed. The chart provides an abbreviation of the first commandment, and is only meant to highlight differences between how the 14 distinct un-numbered commands are organized into ten. As someone who claims to have read the Catechism, I find it odd that you did not rely on the Catechism's section on the Ten Commandments. Do you consider the Apologetic website's chart a higher authority?

Here's a quote from the Catechism ([url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1.htm#art1"]link[/url]) :
[quote]THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.[/quote]Every day you leave your signature unchanged, you are bearing false witness, a sin against the Eight Commandment.

Isn't it ironic that you are willing to break one Commandment in order to attempt to defend the Ten Commandments? As it says in the Letter of James, "For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, [b]has become guilty in respect to all of it[/b]." (James 2:10)

Your false witness is a stain on your soul, not ours.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1228390' date='Apr 3 2007, 11:43 AM']Number 10 is split into 2 in the Catholic commandments, why are TWO numbers needed for coveting?

I am not lying.[/quote]


Yes, indeed you are. The avatar and sig, are falsehoods, the avatar and sig belong to you, therefor they are your falsehoods, and falsehoods are most always lies. Again it has been explained to you yet the avatar and signature of lies remain.

[quote]THE SECOND COMMANDMENT...{where is it in the Catholic 10?}
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.[/quote]

The answer to this question has been given the "second" commandment is part the first. An "graven image" is a "god", an strange god, "You shall have no strange gods before me." Which is why it is the first commandment.

An the avatar is blasphemy, and you greatly err in using it. It claims there are only 9 commandments, which is a lie. Holy Mother teaches there are in fact 10 commandments. The avatar is an falsehood.

Using the avatar and sig, again that you know the answers makes you an lier Budge, simple as that.

[hoosieranna]

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Edited April 4, 2007 by Nadezhda

[Guest T-Bone]

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Edited April 4, 2007 by T-Bone

[Budge]

Hmm a thread that amounts to LIAR LIAR pants on fire, when I have more then shown that graven images is left out of Catholic 10 commandment lists.

[Aloysius]

PART THREE: LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER ONE: "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 1: THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I. "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"
II. "HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"
III. "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"
* IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . ."
2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . "66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68

2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.


It is Commandment 1.4

I could just as easily accuse you of falsely combining the two obvious commandments "Him alone shall you serve" and "You shall have no other gods before me"