Fornication Or Masturbation

[XIX]

Causing sin =\= forcing one to sin

Causing sin is more like placing temptation before the weak.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1592455' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:15 PM']This might have been said before, but...

Just because fornication involves two people, doesn't mean it's worse than masturbation. In fornication, the pair shouldn't be seen as a pair but as [b]individuals[/b]. Just as an [b]individual[/b] masturbates. In fornication, each person willingly commits to the act. Whether or not one claims to have been "seduced" the truth is that both take responsibility for their own actions.

I think both (fornication and masturbation) are on the same page.

Edit:
How does one individual cause another individual to sin? We all have free will. You can't force someone to sin. Random names here: Mike may want to "fool around" with Michelle, but Michelle, being a good Catholic, doesn't want to sin or lead Mike into sin. That's the reasoning here, right? Well, Mike can just go on out and "fool around" with Melanie. He brings himself into the sin. It's completely his decision.[/quote]

I agree with this.

Which mortal SIN is more grevious to God, done willingly by each individual? Perhaps the individual gravity is judged by each situation and where the person's heart/conscience/knowledge/understanding is at the time, and how hardened they may be toward God and his/her neighbor. In fornication, for example, He may judge one of the people involved more harshly than the other for each of their sins, depending on "where they are." In a marriage, a man is cheating on his wife by masturbating to pictures of other women, and perhaps he also causes her to gravely sin as a result of the pain and despair he knowingly causes her.

I doubt God generalizes in his judgments or carries such a legalistic view of sin that would make it a simple cut and dry comparison.

Edited July 12, 2008 by lilac_angel

[Deb]

I think God judges sin by what is or was in our hearts and also by the gravity of the sin.

[color="#800000"]"Our Lord said to Pilate ([i]John 19:11[/i]): 'He that hath delivered me to thee, hath the greater sin."

The above indicates that there are different degrees of sin.

[/color][color="#000000"]"And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous..." Hmmmm, I think there was a lot of fornicating going on there. All kinds.

I found a fantastic read about sin on this web site. The part on the loss of sense of sin and the personal and social sins are very good.

[url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/morality/sin.asp"]http://www.catholic-pages.com/morality/sin.asp[/url][/color]

[lilac_angel]

Masturbation can be considered either mental fornication or adultery of the mind, depending on whether one is married or not.

The term sodomy, an unnatural sexual act, came out of Sodom, and masturbation is one of the most unnatural sexual acts.

Both Jesus and the Old Testament teach that God's law is concerned not only with external and outward actions but also with the attitudes of heart and mind that lead to the actions. The action as well as the intent to carry out the action are both condemned as violations of God's law. In the seventh commandment Jesus includes the lustful look and the sinful imagination. There is adultery of the body and adultery of the mind. Job spoke of making a covenant with his eyes, and not gazing at a virgin (31:1). Peter also makes reference to those who have "eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin" (2 Pet. 2:14).

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Persistent or recurring sin jeopardizes spiritual life much as a gangrenous infection threatens physical health. In a way, since masturbation can be a more persistent, recurring, addictive sin always centered on pure selfishness, it could potentially be more grevious (causing great sorrow) to God in the respect that it can kill a soul more deceptively, if not because it is the more unnatural act. Perhaps it causes more of a gradual death of the soul, but death nonetheless.

Bottom line... I guess we can speculate which mortal sin will get us to a potentially less hot part of hell, since there are degrees of sin, but speculation is pretty much all it will be, and both sins obviously should be avoided like the plague.

Edited July 13, 2008 by lilac_angel

[Deb]

I guess I pretty much have concluded that whichever of these sins I might partake of (hopefully neither will come to pass) and that I have to confess, will be the worst.

[Balthazor]

You know I really can't tell you.
I mean, I have done both and they both make you feel like croutons equally.

However.
I think that the actual acts greivousness depends on intent. For example: you fornicate because you boyfriend pressures you into it and you love him and want to please him so you say ok. Or say you are caught up in passion... I think that then if you end up in the sack becasue you are in love and passion that is less of a sin especailly if you fully intend marriage than masterbation because masterbation is purely selfish.
However if you go out and just use people...... then you might as well be masturbatinig, it is also selfish only it is worse because you can really hurt someone else.