heshmafluff Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 True enough. What about the scriptural references to His brothers and sisters though? (I guess they'd be half-brothers and half-sisters though, coming from Mary and Joseph...) Don't those sort of kill the whole 'perpetual virginity' theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 [quote name='heshmafluff' post='1322805' date='Jul 10 2007, 12:02 PM']I mean, smells of elderberries to be Joseph...[/quote] If you got to be God's step-father, wouldn't that one small sacrifice be worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 [quote name='heshmafluff' post='1322823' date='Jul 10 2007, 02:07 PM']True enough. What about the scriptural references to His brothers and sisters though? (I guess they'd be half-brothers and half-sisters though, coming from Mary and Joseph...) Don't those sort of kill the whole 'perpetual virginity' theory?[/quote] The terms used in the original Greek could just as easily be translated cousin or step-sibling. Which is what we believe it means, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heshmafluff Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Alas! I do not know greek. Does that apply for sisters as well though? And isn't step sibling the same thing as half-[brother or sister]? Edited July 10, 2007 by heshmafluff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 [quote name='heshmafluff' post='1322834' date='Jul 10 2007, 12:12 PM']Alas! I do not know greek. Does that apply for sisters as well though? And isn't step sibling the same thing as half-[brother or sister]?[/quote] Half-sibling: have common genetics with one parent Step-sibling: don't have common genetics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heshmafluff Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ohhhh... it all makes sense to me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 [quote name='heshmafluff' post='1322878' date='Jul 10 2007, 02:26 PM']Ohhhh... it all makes sense to me now.[/quote] If in the particular case of Jesus's family, the term is referring to "step-siblings" then they are children of Joseph from an earlier marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heshmafluff Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 [quote]Joseph from an earlier marriage[/quote] For something like this, don't you think it would have been mentioned [b]somewhere [/b]in the Bible that he had been married already once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Apparently Joseph was an older man. Like... really old. That's sorta why he's not in the picture during Jesus' ministry. Anywho, I think I mentioned this before, that is about the Queenship of Mary. She is the Queen mother of heaven because it fulfills the parallel in the Old Testament. That is, The Kings of Israel always had their mother as the queen, because the kings had many wives. It was easier to make the mother the queen then have the wives draw straws... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Again, if you want to discuss virginity you should a. look it up in search because it has been discussed about a million times here, or b. start a new thread with your specific questions. This thread was about Mary's sinlessness was it not? I hate to be picky, but threads tend to run all over the place and nothing gets achieved if they randomly change topics like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 No problem. I know Heshmafluff is picky about staying on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heshmafluff Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 No, this thread is about Mary in general. Her alleged sinlessness was just the thing we spoke of most recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Just do a quick forum search for some of the broad topics about Mary, then bring it up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 [quote name='prose' post='1322778' date='Jul 10 2007, 12:52 PM']I am not answering as deeply as some here, but I hope my posts help somewhat. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Mary could not have saved the world because it was God who made her full of grace through the death of His son. Remember someone earlier had said that God worked outside of time? Mary still needed Jesus. However, God could not dwell and be formed in a sinful being. He needed a sinless vessel (of which he had filled with grace so as to achieve this). Interestingly, I was speaking to an Orthodox Catholic in one of my theology courses, and they believe (as he explained to me) that Mary was wiped of all sin when the angel Gabriel had addressed her. So that she had previously had sin, but when the angel said Full of Grace, all of her sins were dissolved. Same reason. A sinful vessel could not hold Christ.[/quote] That is not Catholic teaching. The Church's teaching is that Mary was [i]conceived[/i] without original sin - the "Immaculate Conception." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heshmafluff Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Still makes no sense about the sinlessness, but I thought we were done there? A note one Joseph, regarding SMM's post... "Apparently Joseph was an older man. " Is there scripture to back this up? A note of apology to Prose that I am bringing something up that has been dragged out dozens of times before, and if you want I will change the direction this discussion is taking. Correct me if I am wrong, but Mary being Co-Redemptix means that she cooperates with Christ in the work of saving sinners. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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