Vatican's Chief Exorcist Repeats Condemnation Of Harry Potter Nove

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1331158' date='Jul 16 2007, 05:43 PM']Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland.[/quote]


That can mean all kinds of things. The Kirk ranges from die-hard Calvinists to individuals who would make that homosexual Episcopal Bishop look like Torquemada. Albeit, there are more of the former than the latter.

Edited July 17, 2007 by MichaelF

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1331119' date='Jul 16 2007, 05:19 PM']Frankly, people should be MORE concerned about "The Golden Compass," the first of the "His Dark Materials" series to hit the big screen (slated for release in December). Now THAT is a disturbing series.[/quote]


Well, that's to be expected, given that the author (Pullman) is very vocal about his hatred of Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular.

No surprises there.

[jmjtina]

this is like deja vu

I feel like I've been down this thread before.....

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1331652' date='Jul 16 2007, 10:33 PM']That can mean all kinds of things. The Kirk ranges from die-hard Calvinists to individuals who would make that homosexual Episcopal Bishop look like Torquemada. Albeit, there are more of the former than the latter.[/quote]
Yeah, this guy is supposedly Catholic.


[img]http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2004/0406/ncatholic0612.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/20finspeak.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.crisismagazine.com/images/may2003.jpg[/img]

[KnightofChrist]

Good ol'heretics

[KnightofChrist]

I am happy to respond to your email.

There are many ways one can support abortion-on-demand. Not all of the ways would constitute heresy, either material heresy or formal heresy. A woman faced with a problem pregnancy who has an abortion would be committing a serious sin and can be said to be "supportion abortion" but it is not likely that she is thinking about the teaching of the magisterium when she has her abortion and so she is in no way guilty of heresy.

Formal heresy consists in the pertinacious denial or expressed doubts about any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith. So, the woman in the example above is not a heretic, [b]but someone like Senator Ted Kennedy or Senator John Kerry who not only deny the truth of the magisterial teachings about the evil of abortion [u]are without a doubt formal heretics.[/u][/b]

The magisterial teaching about the evil of abortion is most clearly set forth in the encyclicals of Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul the Great. The most recent clear teaching that denial of the evil of abortion is heresy is contained in the Doctrinal Note issued by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) with the express approval of Pope John Paul the Great.

You can find access to all these magisterial documents on the website: www.defide.com <http://www.defide.com>



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"My prayer is that your love may more and more abound, both in understanding and wealth of experience, so that with a clear conscience and blameless conduct you may learn to value the things that really matter, up to the very day of Christ. It is my wish that you may be found rich in the harvest of justice which Jesus Christ has ripened in you, to the glory and praise of God."
- From the Letter of Saint Paul to the Phillipians, 1:10-11
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Blessings!

+Rene Henry Gracida
Bishop Emeritus of Corpus Christi
Abyssus Abyssum Invocat


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[Laudate_Dominum]

Awesome post Knight! Thanks!

[KnightofChrist]

Your welcome this is from some time ago, I was quite surprised to get a response from him.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1331958' date='Jul 17 2007, 01:08 AM']Your welcome this is from some time ago, I was quite surprised to get a response from him.[/quote]
That's so awesome!

[KnightofChrist]

Contacting Fr. Amorth seems will be a more difficult task... Edited July 17, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1331127' date='Jul 16 2007, 06:22 PM']Actually, I find Star Wars much more disturbing, as far as philosophy goes.

At least all the others are, to a greater or lesser extent, all written from a Christian perspective. Star Wars leans more toward an Eastern (non-Christian) religious and philosophical foundation.[/quote]

Actually, Star Wars is one of the best examples of mythologies that touch upon the "true myth" of Christianity.

There are many examples but I will name just one. Anakin Skywalker is the archetype "chosen one/fallen hero" and his son Luke is the archetype "Chosen one/Redeemer." Now let's compare it to Christianity.

Anakin (Adam) sins and falls from grace. He was the chosen one but he failed. And it takes Luke (Jesus) to make all things new and redeem Anakin (Adam). Makes sense?

Stories like Star Wars, LOTR and Narnia open people up to the "mystery of Christianity" by silently touching upon the true myth of Christ.

Harry Potter tries to do this but ultimately fails. LOTR and Narnia had the supreme grace that transcended their authors into their works and it showed in their stories. Star Wars was successful because it heavily relied on archetypal mythology, which I believe is one of the ways into the mystery of Christianity. Harry Potter tries to do this by incorporating archetypes but and a BIG BUT, it fails to definitely draw a line between good and evil. For example, Harry's professor teaches the students how to use magic to kill, even though he says it's bad, he still does it and kills the spider in front of everyone. Where in LOTR and Narnia do we find a mentor teaching the main character, "this is how you use magic to kill?"

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1331021' date='Jul 16 2007, 03:33 PM']Lauren, I like and respect you, but basing your comparisons of Tolkien and Lewis against the movies is not fair. It makes your criticism ring hollow. And I think Cathoholic noted several good things, about the made-up spells, redemptive aspects of main characters, etc. I would encourage you to read the article I linked to earlier; I think it does a good job of explaining the Christian themes and symbolism you can see in the book. The author notes that Rowling uses many of the same symbols used by Tolkien and Lewis, and also notes the changes that occur to characters throughout each book, which are reminiscent of redemptive themes. I think there are many good things you can pull from the books even on a surface reading; you don't have to be well-educated and well-formed to fish for good messages from them.[/quote]


I don't get it. How does comparing the Christian authors with the non-Christian authors, and the way that shows in the films, make for a hollow argument?

[tojo]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1331100' date='Jul 16 2007, 05:06 PM'][b]Question:[/b] Is Rowling even a Christian? I know Tolkien was Catholic, and Lewis was Methodist (was Catholic friendly).[/quote]

C.S. Lewis was a member of the Church of England (Anglican/Episcopalian). The Methodists descend directly from the Church of England though, and share some commonalities. Perhaps this was somehow the source of the confusion.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1332122' date='Jul 17 2007, 09:15 AM']Harry Potter tries to do this by incorporating archetypes but and a BIG BUT, it fails to definitely draw a line between good and evil. For example, Harry's professor teaches the students how to use magic to kill, even though he says it's bad, he still does it and kills the spider in front of everyone. Where in LOTR and Narnia do we find a mentor teaching the main character, "this is how you use magic to kill?"[/quote]
As a point of clarification, the above refers to a scene in which "Mad-Eye" Moody taught the "Avada Kedavra" spell to students in a Defense Against the Dark Arts class. However, it should be noted that it was not THE "Mad-Eye" Moody, a good guy, who taught the students this spell, but Bartemius Crouch, who had gone to the "dark side" and who impersonated "Mad-Eye" Moody using a polyjuice potion.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1332303' date='Jul 17 2007, 11:12 AM']I don't get it. How does comparing the Christian authors with the non-Christian authors, and the way that shows in the films, make for a hollow argument? [/quote]
You haven't read the books.

So your criticisms of the books carry very little weight (in my mind at least).

[Sojourner]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1331632' date='Jul 16 2007, 10:21 PM']My take is that Harry Potter is for ages 10 and up. Sometimes, I think the books are PG-13. All that making out in the last one![/quote]
This I would agree with. They are not children's books, at least not the more recent ones.

Read the Velveteen Rabbit instead.

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1331659' date='Jul 16 2007, 10:40 PM']Well, that's to be expected, given that the author (Pullman) is very vocal about his hatred of Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular.

No surprises there.[/quote]
Too true. Which is sad, because the books are quite well-written. Fantastic, even, but for the anti-Catholic/Christian stuff. Which is significant enough to make the books troubling.

[jkaands]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1331119' date='Jul 16 2007, 04:19 PM']Like I said, I've considered his warnings, but after my own analysis and my own reading of the books and input from other sources, I respectfully disagree.

Admittedly, I have never witnessed an exorcism, but one horror tale about a kid who read Harry Potter and ended up possessed causes me no concern about the state of my soul -- and I've read all six books more than once. Especially since there are millions of people who have read the books and DON'T end up possessed or obsessively absorbed in witchcraft.

I bet the kid also brushed his teeth from time to time. Maybe that did him in. Correlation does not equal causation.

As far as her Christianity goes, there are arguments pro and con. Do a google search.
Frankly, people should be MORE concerned about "The Golden Compass," the first of the "His Dark Materials" series to hit the big screen (slated for release in December). Now THAT is a disturbing series.[/quote]

hear, hear terra.

while you're worrying, consider dungeons & dragons, all those video games about car theft, etc, and GOTH. Those were the influences which helped make the Columbine murderers go berserk.

I had a close Catholic friend I worked with, a woman in her 40's with a teenager, who identified herself as a "devout Catholic" and she and we--loved HP. We were impressed by the kids' virtues of love, fidelity, courage, and constancy-- and studying and learning their (crazy)homework! The only thing I don't like is that the adults are always abandoning the young'uns, but you see this in all childrens' books.

I wish that the Vat exorcist has something better to do--what about Osama--go find and exorcise him!!

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1332525' date='Jul 17 2007, 02:52 PM']As a point of clarification, the above refers to a scene in which "Mad-Eye" Moody taught the "Avada Kedavra" spell to students in a Defense Against the Dark Arts class. However, it should be noted that it was not THE "Mad-Eye" Moody, a good guy, who taught the students this spell, but Bartemius Crouch, who had gone to the "dark side" and who impersonated "Mad-Eye" Moody using a polyjuice potion.[/quote]

I want to note however though that it was disturbing to witness the children laughing and thrilled by the fact that the professor was manipulating and controlling the spider. It's the little subtle actions that enter in the gray area of morality. These subtleties lie throughout the series.

But I still find HP to be an extremely entertaining read. But it pales to comparison to LOTR and Narnia regarding their Christian message. LOTR and Narnia are Christian works, HP is not.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1332682' date='Jul 17 2007, 02:07 PM']I want to note however though that it was disturbing to witness the children laughing and thrilled by the fact that the professor was manipulating and controlling the spider. It's the little subtle actions that enter in the gray area of morality. These subtleties lie throughout the series.

But I still find HP to be an extremely entertaining read. But it pales to comparison to LOTR and Narnia regarding their Christian message. LOTR and Narnia are Christian works, HP is not.[/quote]
Arguably, HP is written with a Christian message. You should read the article I link to earlier in this thread.

[KnightofChrist]

Spiritual message perhaps, Benedict (Ratzinger), Fr. Amorth, and I would seemly argue that, that spiritual message is an occult message, even Satanic. Even a occult message can have "morals."

[quote]And unlike Lewis, whose books are drenched in theology, Rowling refuses to view herself as a moral educator to the millions of children who read her books. "I don't think that it's at all healthy for the work for me to think in those terms. So I don't," she says. "I never think in terms of What am I going to teach them? Or, What would it be good for them to find out here?"

"Although," she adds, "undeniably, morals are drawn." But she doesn't make it easy. In Goblet, the good-hearted Cedric Diggory dies for no reason. In Phoenix, we learn that Harry's dad, whom he idealized, had been an arrogant bully. People aren't good and bad by nature; they change and transform and struggle. As Dumbledore tells Harry, "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." Granted, we know Harry will not succumb to anger and evil. But we never stop feeling that he could. (Interestingly, although Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland, the books are free of references to God. On this point, Rowling is cagey. "Um. I don't think they're that secular," she says, choosing her words slowly. "But, obviously, Dumbledore is not Jesus.")[/quote] [url="http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-time-grossman.htm"]Source[/url]

Well she says "morals are drawn." How can she write a Christian message and not think it healthy to think about what she is teaching the kids who read her books? She can not.

Edited July 17, 2007 by KnightofChrist