Do Animals Have Souls At All?

[aalpha1989]

i would argue with my cat except he's a dog. so i argue with my dog. poor guy. no matter how cute and soft and fun he is he can't ever go to heaven. *sigh*

[Maggyie]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1346008' date='Aug 1 2007, 02:41 AM'] i would argue with my cat except he's a dog. so i argue with my dog. poor guy. no matter how cute and soft and fun he is he can't ever go to heaven. *sigh*[/quote]

Those people who made the "All Dogs Go to Heaven" movie were liars!

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1346009' date='Aug 1 2007, 01:41 AM']Those people who made the "All Dogs Go to Heaven" movie were liars! [/quote]

yeah. *sniff*. NEITHER of my dogs will make it. *sigh*. i GUESS that's ok. i mean God's plan is a little better than mine...

'cept my dogs are both getting pretty old. it's sad!

[Maggyie]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1346014' date='Aug 1 2007, 02:47 AM']yeah. *sniff*. NEITHER of my dogs will make it. *sigh*. i GUESS that's ok. i mean God's plan is a little better than mine...

'cept my dogs are both getting pretty old. it's sad![/quote]

Maybe there is an Animal Heaven where the good dogs and cats will enjoy a state of natural happiness... Like limbo, but for critters... one can always hope!

When my first dog died when I was younger, my mother told me that she was sitting on Jesus' lap in Heaven. Thanks Mom! Lol, maybe He can make an exception here and there... after all He is God, He can do whatever He wants!

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1346017' date='Aug 1 2007, 01:49 AM']Maybe there is an Animal Heaven where the good dogs and cats will enjoy a state of natural happiness... Like limbo, but for critters... one can always hope!

When my first dog died when I was younger, my mother told me that she was sitting on Jesus' lap in Heaven. Thanks Mom! Lol, maybe He can make an exception here and there... after all He is God, He can do whatever He wants![/quote]

.....

if you say so. . i guess it's true that one can always hope...

i've had my oldest dog for 10 years! i'm gonna miss him when he dies....he's my favowite. i'm his favorite too, but dont tell the rest of the family. . he sleeps with me the most (cept not during summer cause its too hot) and he follows me around more than anyone else...

[carrdero]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1346001' date='Aug 1 2007, 01:33 AM']i don't think he was using those qualities of ants to prove a soul. He was merely responding to the idea that ants can make 'evil choices'.[/quote]
Socrates may have been using these terms to differentiate souls, I merely implied that there was no difference. "Good and evil" judgments are human made concepts, not concerns to an eternal soul.

[CatholicCid]

I suppose my thoughts would be... Animals do have 'souls', yet not the same as a human's soul as they lack free will and the consequences of such. Yet, they are still creatures of God whom we haven been made stewards over. And I do not think God would have us be stewards over creatures who do not return to him. Instead, he would trust into our care his creatures which would eventually return to him. However, as they do not have human souls, I am not sure as to how this would be.


"Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals."Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 2416

Edited August 1, 2007 by CatholicCid

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1345767' date='Jul 31 2007, 09:50 PM']score:

aalpha:1 ponti: 0
hehe um sorry man i'm just kidding[/quote]
I was told wrong. I'll need to tell my priest this

[infinitelord1]

Animals do not have souls. Animals act on instinct. They do what is necessary to survive and that is it. They act completely according to whatever pleases their senses. I would agree that different animals have different levels of intelligence and memory capacity. I also believe they are capable of love. I dont believe they have the capacity to make moral decisions however. Therefore it is unnecessary for them to have a soul. You can teach a dog that whatever it is doing is bad, but it will never know why.

The human standard for morallity comes from a higher state of being than we can even imagine. Do you really think that animals are capable of even percieving something like this? And if they do, can they communicate that to other animals (i dont believe so because then you would see animals technologically advancing if they had the ability to communicate)? If they have no idea then can one justify holding moral issues against them? You also have to consider the fact that Jesus is the only way to salvation. I dont think any animals know who he is.

[123]

I can't be sure, I would like to think that they do but I cannot speculate since Scripture doesn't say God granted them souls.

[url="http://www.all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html"]http://www.all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html[/url]

[carrdero]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1346068' date='Aug 1 2007, 08:14 AM']Animals do not have souls. Animals act on instinct. They do what is necessary to survive and that is it. They act completely according to whatever pleases their senses. I would agree that different animals have different levels of intelligence and memory capacity. I also believe they are capable of love. I dont believe they have the capacity to make moral decisions however. Therefore it is unnecessary for them to have a soul. You can teach a dog that whatever it is doing is bad, but it will never know why.

The human standard for morallity comes from a higher state of being than we can even imagine. Do you really think that animals are capable of even percieving something like this? And if they do, can they communicate that to other animals (i dont believe so because then you would see animals technologically advancing if they had the ability to communicate)? If they have no idea then can one justify holding moral issues against them? You also have to consider the fact that Jesus is the only way to salvation. I dont think any animals know who he is.[/quote]
Everythng you mentioned could easily be applied to humans.

[FattyBones]

"One instinct overrides another"

You mean like when your natural desire for approval from your peers overrides your natural desire for approval from your parents. (drugs, other vices)

Or when your territorial instincts override your desire to make friends. (war)

Or when your drive for survival overrides your instinct to look out for others. (greed)

The problem with the instinct thing is that the same reasoning could apply to any human. The only reason that you know different about humans is that you can look at a human mind from the inside. Look at an ant, a human, and a remote control car and tell me an ant is more like the remote controlled car. Only man makes machines.

As for the divisible thing, I concede it is a stretch. But since animals have different instincts than humans, I'd still have to say their souls are different. Imagine a human with a dog's soul -- you could tell the difference I'm sure.

[FattyBones]

Sorry, that guy above me posted before I finished writing.

[carrdero]

[quote]Fatty Bones writes:I concede it is a stretch. But since animals have different instincts than humans, I'd still have to say their souls are different. Imagine a human with a dog's soul -- you could tell the difference I'm sure.[/quote]
I believe that the souls that incarnate into animal shells are the same spiritual entities that choose a human existence. The only difference is the experience (a dog’s life compared to a human’s life), the moments of existence ( a dog may live to 14 years, a human may live to 65) and it’s purpose (a human may want to become president, a dog may not have that same desire). When both entities pass away, both souls goes to the same place to plan for its next incarnation (this is of course if the soul desires to reincarnate).

Edited August 1, 2007 by carrdero

[Slappo]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1346306' date='Aug 1 2007, 03:48 PM']I believe that the souls that incarnate into animal shells are the same spiritual entities that choose a human existence. The only difference is the experience (a dog’s life compared to a human’s life), the moments of existence ( a dog may live to 14 years, a human may live to 65) and it’s purpose (a human may want to become president, a dog may not have that same desire). When both entities pass away, both souls goes to the same place to plan for its next incarnation (this is of course if the soul desires to reincarnate).[/quote]


As Catholics nor Christians believe in reincarnation I would completely disagree with the above post.

As for FattyBones comment:
"One instinct overrides another"

You mean like when your natural desire for approval from your peers overrides your natural desire for approval from your parents. (drugs, other vices)

Or when your territorial instincts override your desire to make friends. (war)

Or when your drive for survival overrides your instinct to look out for others. (greed)


The difference is man can CHOOSE to follow the natural desires. When my natural desire for sex over rides my natural desire for sleep, I can choose to ignore my sex drive. When my natural desire for food overides my natural desire for work, I can choose to continue my fast and keep working. As a matter of fact... I have no natural desire for work, at least not at my job. So if desires over ride everything else in humans as well, how can I EVER work? My desire for sleep, food, recreation is much greater. This is because I have rational thoughts, and I have the ability to make choices using a rational thought process, not an instinctual thought process.

The thing about animals is they do not have rational thoughts. Animals have instincts, humans do NOT have instincts. Humans have rational thought processes, animals do not.

Yes animals have souls, but no they are not eternal souls, and they are no where near the same as humans. Because an animals soul is not eternal, there would be no animal heaven etc.

As for having animals and plants in the heaven we will experience in eternity... the comment to make it more beautiful would not be appropriate. The beauty of God is so incredible that it is beyond human mortal intellect, therefore I doubt that a dog, or a rose would make heaven anymore beautiful than God already is.

These anyways, are the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Pax Christi,
Marcus