Allright, Now I'm (mad)!

[aByzantineCatholic]

willguy,

Here is a good website to start with on Mary:

THE FALLING ASLEEP OF MARY

The Role of the Queen Mother

To understand Mary’s role better, it is helpful to understand the customary role of the Queen Mother in ancient times. For there to be a Queen Mother, the king would have to have died (or relinquished the throne) such that his son was reigning in his place.

One time this happened when King David was an old man. David had promised that Solomon, the son of Bathsheba would reign in his place (1 Kings 1:13, 17, 30). Realizing that David was bedridden and near death, Adonijah, the son of Haggith (one of David’s wives - 2 Samuel 3:4) exalted himself saying "I will be king" (1 Kings 1:5). Getting Joab, the commander of the army and Abiathar, the high priest, to side with him, Adonijah set himself up as heir to the throne. When David heard about it, however, he had Nathan the prophet and Zadok the priest anoint Solomon king and organize a parade through Jerusalem.

This put Adonijah in the role of a traitor and usurper. Adonijah later admitted that the kingdom belonged to Solomon from the Lord and that he almost had it for himself. When he begged for mercy from Solomon, Solomon granted him mercy, sent him home and did not execute him.

After David died, Adonijah came to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother, and now the Queen Mother, and asked her to ask Solomon for the hand of Abishag, King David’s nurse, that he might marry her (1 Kings 2:13-17). Abishag had been selected to care for David in his old age and even to lie next to him to help him keep warm (1 Kings 1:1-4). This meant Abishag was like one of David’s concubines and for one of David’s sons to request her for a wife was to request incest (compare 1 Corinthians 5:1).

When Bathsheba went to present this request to King Solomon, Solomon rose to meet her, bowed down before her and then set her on a throne at his right hand. Then Solomon told his mother to present her request, "for I will not refuse you" (1 Kings 2:19-20). Solomon had to refuse her, however, because her request violated Mosaic Law (Leviticus 18:6-29), even though Abishag never had sexual relations with David.

The Queen Mother was very influential in Israel, but not always for the good of the nation. King Asa (Solomon’s great grandson) was trying to do what was right in the sight of the Lord. However, his mother Maacah was busy making a horrible image as an Asherah. Asa removed his mother from the position of Queen Mother and destroyed the Asherah (2 Chronicles 15:16, 1 Kings 15:13).

Similarly with Asa’s great grandson Ahaziah. The Queen Mother then was Athaliah, the granddaughter of Omri, King of Israel. Omri was the father of the evil king Ahab who fought against the Prophet Elijah. As Queen Mother, Athaliah counseled her son to walk in the ways of the house of Ahab (2 Chronicles 22:2-4).

Even in matters of state, the Queen Mother had a role. For example, when King Jehoiachin was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, the dignitaries that went out to meet Nebuchadnezzar were Jehoiachin, the Queen Mother, his servants, his captains and his officials, in that order (2 Kings 24:12; Jeremiah 22:24-26).

Table I is a list of the kings of Judah from Solomon to the Babylonian captivity. For every one of these kings, the Queen Mother is also mentioned in the summary statement of his reign. [There is one exception: King Ahaz of Judah who apparently had no Queen Mother; that is, she died before he became king.] One might note also that the king’s wife is not mentioned in these summary statements since the king often had more than one wife. But he had only one mother.

These examples illustrates the influence of the Queen Mother. She was regarded as a very important person, worthy of a throne, whose requests will be granted by the King. Since Jesus was universally regarded in the Church as the King of Kings (Revelation 19:16, Daniel 2:47, Mark 14:62, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:36), Mary, as His mother, held a similar place of honor as did Bathsheba during the reign of Solomon, Maacah during the reign of Asa, and Athaliah during the reign of Ahaziah. Whereas many of the Queen Mothers during the history of Judah were not necessarily devoted to godliness, Mary was.

Mary’s role as Queen Mother was also prophesied by the sons of Korah in Psalm 45. Verses 6 and 7 are quoted in Hebrews as referring to the Son of God: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. Thou has loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Thy God, has anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows" (Psalm 45:6-7, Hebrews 1:8-9). But then verse 9 states, "Kings’ daughters are among Thy noble ladies; at Thy right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir" (Psalm 45:9). Since Jesus never married, the "queen" can only refer to Mary, the Queen Mother.

Of interest also are two letters from Ignatius, later Bishop of Antioch (martyred c. 107 AD), to the Apostle John and one letter from Ignatius to the Virgin Mary and her reply82. These letters had to have been written prior to Ignatius’ ordination as Bishop died c. 55 AD. Some critics discount these letters as later forgeries due to a different literary style than the letters genuinely attributed to Ignatius in 107 AD. This is really inadequate grounds for rejection, since (1) a person’s literary style can change over 60 years and (2) these letters were drafted by Ignatius himself while the "genuine" ones were dictated to a scribe while Ignatius was being led as an old man to Rome to be fed to the lions.

The content of the four letters is very brief. The first letter to the Apostle John asks John to come speak to the Church in Antioch and to bring the Virgin Mary with him, since she was living in his house (John 19:26-27) Many of the women in Antioch wanted to meet Mary. Some even made pilgrimages to Jerusalem to meet her and one Salome stayed with her five months. This Salome gave a glowing report in Antioch of Mary as a model of godliness and good works. In the second letter, Ignatius requested John’s leave to visit Jerusalem himself to see first the Virgin Mary, and also James, the Lord’s brother (Galatians 1:19) and Bishop of Jerusalem.

In the letter to the Virgin Mary, Ignatius asked her about things related by John concerning Jesus that only she would know: the things she treasured in her heart (Luke 2:19, 51). Mary replied that she will come to Antioch with John soon, and encouraged Ignatius to stand fast in the Faith and not to let the fierceness of the persecution move him.

Good Luck!

[Aloysius]

argh... it cant re-send the validation email,,, i dont think it's gonna let me join :(

Edited February 11, 2004 by Aloysius

[the_rev]

If any of you care my name there is:

JMJkyrie_eleison

[the_rev]

Which topics shall we present the truth of the Church Jesus Christ started!

[Laudate_Dominum]

Their forums are weird. The site messes me up... I'm too impatient to figure it all out. I posted something yesterday and I can't find my post anymore!

[Lounge Daddy]

Thank you for signing up for a new account at Crosswalk.com.  We're very happy

to have you with us.  Your account info is as follows:

Username: LoungeDaddy

I am so very in And, it's Mr. Daddy to these people. :P

Edited February 11, 2004 by Lounge Daddy

[Lounge Daddy]

Wow. This is complicated: huh:

I get into an interesting sub-sub-category, then I go a few threads down to something interesting and it’s from several months ago. <_<

[socalscout]

Wow. This is complicated: huh:

I get into an interesting sub-sub-category, then I go a few threads down to something interesting and it’s from several months ago.

I don't care for teh format at all. If you want to view AntiCatholicism threads in a little better format then go to Christianity.com. You'll get your fill.

[Lounge Daddy]

So... where should I bring up contraception? Hehehe

“Family” or “Theology”? … I’m thinking theology.

[the_rev]

I brought up some points in the Salvation section...

[willguy]

Thanx all. I got another e-mail from the admin. He said:

Hello there!

Posting prayers to Mary in our Community is not acceptable.  If you had come into chat and proceeded to pray to Mary there I would have stopped you as well. If you want to pray to Mary have at it... just not on our site. 

There are obvious differences between Catholicism and Protestantism... we wouldn't be called protestants if there weren't.  *smiles*

With that said, your posts have been forceful in advocating and promoting beliefs, while nothing wrong for a catholic to believe, are wrong according to our Terms of Service, statement of faith, and/or range of doctrines.

Because you resorted to forceful promotion of these beliefs... even going so far as to pray to Mary in your signature... it has been concluded that it would be better to bar you from these discussions and allow you to continue to participate in the Community rather than bar you completely.

I guess you could consider this decision a compromise.  In past years you would have just been banned.

The choice is yours... abide by this restriction or seek Community somewhere that allows forceful promotion of catholic doctrine and prayers to Mary.

So basically, I promoted Catholicism too much for his liking. Then, I went on a thread that I had been participating in to tell the people that I couldn't anymore (so that they didn't think I had left because I couldn't answer them). KNow what happened? I got banned!!!

Now, I have a second account, and though it technically is against the TOS to use it to get around punishement, being punished for promoting Catholicism is not in the TOS either, so perhaps in this case one wrong deserves another .

[cmotherofpirl]

THey just can't handle somebody correcting them and explaining the truth to them.

THay are afraid.

So, you must have been effective.!!!

Hurrah!

[Norseman82]

How do you type Lord have mercy in latin I mean spell it!

Miserere nobis Domine

[Sojourner]

Miserere nobis Domine

Doesn't that mean "Forgive us, God"?

I think "Lord have mercy" is Kyrie Eleison

I'm not Latin scholar, but I think that's what it is.

[Lounge Daddy]

So basically, I promoted Catholicism too much for his liking. Then, I went on a thread that I had been participating in to tell the people that I couldn't anymore (so that they didn't think I had left because I couldn't answer them). KNow what happened? I got banned!!!

Good for you! you have become a kind of internet martyr. …or crusader.

This is an inspiration.

[Norseman82]

Doesn't that mean "Forgive us, God"?

I think "Lord have mercy" is Kyrie Eleison

I'm not Latin scholar, but I think that's what it is.

Kyrie Eleison is Greek.

To give you an example to follow: "Agnus Dei" is the original Latin of the "Lamb of God" we sing right before communion:

English: "Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the word, have mercy on us"

Latin: "Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, miserere nobis"

[willguy]

Its kind of sad that they're that intimidated by a 17 year old.

[Richard]

Willguy, you post some great stuff on here. Small minded geniuses are easily frightened by a lucid, inteligent argument!

I'm going to register! I may not be able to contribute much, but I'm shoulder to shoulder with you guys!

*draws sword and joins the front rank*

[willguy]

Here's my most recent response from the administrator (I may be blocked, but I've still got his e-mail, so I'm making his life difficult).

Praying to Mary in Forums violated #16 of the Terms of Service to which you agreed to abide by.  It states as follows:

16. You will not promote by repeated statements, by provision of URLs to other Web sites, by recommendation to engage in non-Forums activities such as watching programs, reading books, or attending events, or by any other means, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by crosswalk.com in its sole discretion.

It is within my authority to decide what content is acceptable in our Community.  There are certain Catholic teachings which do not line up with Evangelical Christianity as interpreted by Crosswalk.com. If you want to forcefully promote and argue these doctrines then you'll have to find somewhere else to do so.

This is a discussion board and people disagree on various things... we allow some flexibility in promoting certain catholic doctrine which does not line up with protestant doctrine.  You have gone to far with your posts on the topic and you had action taken against you.

I suggest you let this stop here and await for your review date.

Please don't push me further.

Sincerely,

Fred "Fritz" Alberti

So basically, it is against their rules to be Catholic and they can censor you whenever they so choose. On the upside, I was apparently doing a good job of supporting the faith.

[VeraMaria]

Its kind of sad that they're that intimidated by a 17 year old.

an amesome 17 year old

I never knew you were that young

I bet people on that board would be surprised , lol:lol:

Our Lady of Lourdes, on this your feastday, pray for us!