Resting In The Spirit

[Deb]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1454102' date='Feb 1 2008, 12:25 PM']Well, humility is the great litmus test of one's sincerity. The two accounts of stigmata I know anything about are those of St. Francis and Padre Pio. Both were so embarassed by the signs at first that they prayed for God to take them away, which He did for a while. But even after they came back for good, neither desired to have the world know about it.

When it comes to resting in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, and other charismatic gifts, we should look for a sense of humilty. They are legitimate gifts, but we all know that some people are more thankful for gifts than others. If I'm with a charismatic group that holds no expectation for me to express any outward charismatic gifts, then I'm inclined to believe they are legitimate and humble. Some do not (especially Pentecostals, but anyone can fall into this error) and in that case they are contradicting the Church.[/quote]

All Charisms which are received are to be used only for the good of others. Not everyone receives outward charismatic gifts but some receive incredible gifts like the gift of healing or of intercessory prayer. These gifts are utilized in healing masses and in the charismatic movement. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to us and we can discover the same gifts that were given to the Apostles to use to spread the Word.
Pope John Paul II had much love for the Charismatic movement and he wanted it to spread throughout the world.
One should always look at the fruits of these things and if they bring a deepening of faith, an increased ability to love and help our brothers and sisters, physical and spiritual healing and a way to grow ever closer to our Lord through the Holy Spirit, then they are good things. These charisms are gifts from God and to shove them aside, ignore them or return them unopened just because they may appear..."odd"... would be offensive to God. If you don't believe that Jesus was serious about giving us the power of the Holy Spirit, then you won't ever believe in charisms. You will miss out on the incredible work that the Holy Spirit can do in you.

[Oik]

[quote]All Charisms which are received are to be used only for the good of others. Not everyone receives outward charismatic gifts but some receive incredible gifts like the gift of healing or of intercessory prayer. These gifts are utilized in healing masses and in the charismatic movement. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to us and we can discover the same gifts that were given to the Apostles to use to spread the Word.
Pope John Paul II had much love for the Charismatic movement and he wanted it to spread throughout the world.
One should always look at the fruits of these things and if they bring a deepening of faith, an increased ability to love and help our brothers and sisters, physical and spiritual healing and a way to grow ever closer to our Lord through the Holy Spirit, then they are good things. These charisms are gifts from God and to shove them aside, ignore them or return them unopened just because they may appear..."odd"... would be offensive to God. If you don't believe that Jesus was serious about giving us the power of the Holy Spirit, then you won't ever believe in charisms. You will miss out on the incredible work that the Holy Spirit can do in you.[/quote]

This kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the Charismatic movement. Healings and gifts have always been given by God. To recieve these gifts makes you a Christian, not "charismatic." No "movement" has a corner of the market for these gifts. The Holy Spirit moves how He Wills.

All the Charismatic movement has done is emphasize things that were already in actively in the Church. The Charismatic movement didn't bring anything new to the Church. End of story.

[Noel's angel]

Yeah, sometimes it seems like you have to have 'something extra' to be part of the 'charismatic group'. Like those people have been given something that no one else has...I don't really know much about it, but that's how it can seem.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Oik' post='1455027' date='Feb 3 2008, 05:49 PM']This kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the Charismatic movement. Healings and gifts have always been given by God. To recieve these gifts makes you a Christian, not "charismatic." No "movement" has a corner of the market for these gifts. The Holy Spirit moves how He Wills.

All the Charismatic movement has done is emphasize things that were already in actively in the Church. The Charismatic movement didn't bring anything new to the Church. End of story.[/quote]
Smackdown!

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1455046' date='Feb 3 2008, 06:47 PM']Yeah, sometimes it seems like you have to have 'something extra' to be part of the 'charismatic group'. Like those people have been given something that no one else has...I don't really know much about it, but that's how it can seem.[/quote]
I wouldn't know. I've never seen someone speak in tongues, just do that healing thing where people fall over.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Oik' post='1455027' date='Feb 3 2008, 06:49 PM']This kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the Charismatic movement. Healings and gifts have always been given by God. To recieve these gifts makes you a Christian, not "charismatic." No "movement" has a corner of the market for these gifts. The Holy Spirit moves how He Wills.

All the Charismatic movement has done is emphasize things that were already in actively in the Church. The Charismatic movement didn't bring anything new to the Church. End of story.[/quote]

There's no reason for a Charismatic Catholic to disagree with you here. The point is not for all of us to become part of this movement, but simply to be open to however the Spirit may want to move in us. Sometimes that's manifested in outward signs, but more frequently (and more importantly) it's manifested in our hearts through a stronger relationship with Christ.

FWIW, I think you may have read more into Deb's post than she actually said. At least the way I understood her point, she's simply saying that we should be open to whatever God wants for us. If God wants you to experience some "resting in the Spirit," why refuse it? It may not make a lot of sense, but if it's from God then we can trust that He knows what is best for us.

And that seems to be where the real division lies: discerning whether or not a certain gift is from God. That's when you look for the fruits of the Spirit. If the people claiming to receive charismatic gifts are exhibiting self-control, gentleness, faithfulness, goodness, kindness, patience, peace, joy, and -- most of all -- love, then you have every reason to believe the gifts are genuine.

[Deb]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1455202' date='Feb 4 2008, 12:40 AM']There's no reason for a Charismatic Catholic to disagree with you here. The point is not for all of us to become part of this movement, but simply to be open to however the Spirit may want to move in us. Sometimes that's manifested in outward signs, but more frequently (and more importantly) it's manifested in our hearts through a stronger relationship with Christ.

FWIW, I think you may have read more into Deb's post than she actually said. At least the way I understood her point, she's simply saying that we should be open to whatever God wants for us. If God wants you to experience some "resting in the Spirit," why refuse it? It may not make a lot of sense, but if it's from God then we can trust that He knows what is best for us.

And that seems to be where the real division lies: discerning whether or not a certain gift is from God. That's when you look for the fruits of the Spirit. If the people claiming to receive charismatic gifts are exhibiting self-control, gentleness, faithfulness, goodness, kindness, patience, peace, joy, and -- most of all -- love, then you have every reason to believe the gifts are genuine.[/quote]

Thank you! Exactly what I was trying to say. One should be open to whatever God chooses to present to you. I was getting the impression that others were saying that these charisms were bad, not needed, or somehow not in keeping with the Catholic Faith. In my experiences, they have only enriched and brought me closer to God and the incredible gift of healing, faith and love that he has given me. I don't find any of this "odd." I do find it miraculous and am constantly in awe of my church and my religion and my Christ Jesus.

[Deb]

Here is part of a speech that Pope Paul II made to the International Conference of Catholic Charismatic Leaders in 1998:
[left][i]Dear Brothers and Sisters,[/i][/left]
[left]1. In greeting the International Conference for Catholic Charismatic Leaders,“I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed throughout the world” (Rom 1:8). The Catholic Charismatic Renewal has helped many Christians to rediscover the presence and power of the Holy Spirit in their lives, in the life of the Church and in the world; and this rediscovery has awakened in them a faith in Christ filled with joy, a great love of the Church and a generous dedication to her evangelizing mission. In this year of the Holy Spirit, I join you in praise of God for the precious fruits which he has wished to bring to maturity in your communities and, through them, in the particular Churches. [/left]
[left]PP II in 2003:[/left]
[center][b][i][size=4][color="#663300"]MESSAGE OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE CATHOLIC FRATERNITY OF CHARISMATIC
COVENANT COMMUNITIES AND FELLOWSHIPS[/color][/size][/i][/b][/center]
[left] [/left]
[left][i]To the Catholic Fraternity
of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships[/i][/left]
[left][i]"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit" [/i]( [i]Rom [/i]15:13 ). With the words of the Apostle Paul I greet you on the occasion of your Conference being held in Rome at this time. This is indeed an occasion of joyful thanksgiving as you celebrate thirty-five years of Catholic Charismatic Renewal within the Church. As I move into the twenty-fifth year of my Pontificate, I thank you for the prayers with which you have accompanied me and for your fidelity to the ministry entrusted to me. Your contribution to the life of the Church, through your faithful witness to the presence and action of the Holy Spirit has helped many people to rediscover in their own lives the beauty of the grace given to them at Baptism, the gateway to life in the Spirit (cf. [i]Catechism of the Catholic Church, [/i]1213). It has helped them to know the power of the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit conferred at Confirmation (cf. [i]ibid., [/i]1302). I join you in praising the Most Holy Trinity for the work of the Spirit who continues to draw people more fully into the life of Christ and to render their bonds with the Church more perfect (cf. [i][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html"]Lumen Gentium[/url], [/i]11).[/left]
[left] [/left]
[left]This speech from World Youth Day by the President of the Pontifical Council for Laity is very good at explaining the Church's appreciation for the charismatic lay movement. [/left]
[left][url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/Colonia2005/rc_pc_laity_doc_20030805_card-stafford-closing-gmg_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontific...ing-gmg_en.html[/url][/left]
[left]While it may be "nothing new" in the Church, it is certainly a new wave out outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our time. [/left]
[left] [/left]
[left] [/left]

[Deb]

I just got back from a healing mass. Yes, I rested in the spirit. Yes, I feel renewed and full of Love for Christ Jesus. Yes, I danced in my driveway when I got home.
I have no charisms. I have only the Lord working in me. Praise the Lord in all his Glory!!!