Are You Religious ?

[Guest]

The thing i hear alot now is christians saying their not religious. They follow this up with they have a personal relationship with jesus leading to God. What is it to be religious and are you religious ? Is their anything wrong with being religious ? Are people saying that their not religious denying their faith ? What divides the catholic christian and the non denominational christian ? It seems as if the catholic christian is saying their religious and the non denominatial christian is saying their not.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1461180' date='Feb 13 2008, 04:23 PM']The thing i hear alot now is christians saying their not religious. They follow this up with they have a personal relationship with jesus leading to God. What is it to be religious and are you religious ? Is their anything wrong with being religious ? Are people saying that their not religious denying their faith ? What divides the catholic christian and the non denominational christian ? It seems as if the catholic christian is saying their religious and the non denominatial christian is saying their not.[/quote]

To me, to be truly non-religious one would have to be either agnostic, atheist, or simply a theist. Once you start saying I have a relationship with Jesus, you are by definition a christian, you are religious in my book.

I think these people are actually just saying they're non-denominational, or they're not in an organized religion.

There is nothing 'wrong' with being religious at all, in fact it is through the organized religion that we meet God. God gave us His Son, who gave us a Church and the Church gave us a Religion. You can't just go pick up a Bible and learn about God without using what the religion gave us (the Bible).

I don't think that when people say they're not religious deny their faith outright, but they are probably misinformed. Although they could be denying their faith; it seems like its kinda a heresy to me.

The Catholic Christian is religious because we assent to the Church which God has given us. We believe the Church is the teaching body, and thus we follow its teachings because these are the teachings God has given us.

[Guest]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1461188' date='Feb 13 2008, 05:51 PM']I don't think that when people say they're not religious deny their faith outright, but they are probably misinformed. Although they could be denying their faith; it seems like its kinda a heresy to me.[/quote]

I dont know if anyone watches TBN (Trinity Brodcast Network) ? One of the pastors that is always on their is Creflo Dollar. I have heard him say in his preaching that their is "not one religious bone in his body". I have also heard him say " God bless this catholic apostolic church" to which everyone in the audiences reply's amen. He talks about takeing communion and also claims that you should take your sins right to God for forgiveness.
His church is a huge mega church out of atlanta. Should I even be listening to this guy ? He has alot of good sermons and he seems to be led by the holy spirt. Alot of his crictics say he preaches the prosperity message in the bible.
But he is the prime example of what im talking about when i started this thread. He says he's not religious at all and yet pastors a huge church with a variety of races of people and is very outspoken about not being religious.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Guest

[hoosieranna]

My own experience (which is admittedly limited) is that people draw a line between being "religious" and being "spiritual." "Religious" in this case tends to signify active participation in an established, clearly delineated denomination (think Lutheran, Southern Baptist, Episcopalian, etc). "Spiritual" refers to someone who goes to the nearest church for Easter and Christmas, maybe occasionally going at other times.

The use of the term catholic, at least by the type of preacher you're mentioning, usually means "universal", but not necessarily part of the Catholic Church. I went to a Lutheran college and they used the term "catholic apostolic church" to refer to all of Christianity. Or, I could be way off base.

[dUSt]

By definition, you can't be "spiritual" or Christian without being religious.

When people speak in that language they're basically saying they don't like to go to church.

[Dismas]

I'm not religious, but I plan to be. Religious brother that is.

[Guest]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1461284' date='Feb 13 2008, 07:30 PM']I'm not religious, but I plan to be. Religious brother that is.[/quote]

what does that entale ?

[Dismas]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1461287' date='Feb 13 2008, 06:32 PM']what does that entale ?[/quote]
Vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience. That and and a habit.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1461284' date='Feb 14 2008, 12:30 AM']I'm not religious, but I plan to be. Religious brother that is.[/quote]

You are not [i]a[/i] religious. You're already religious.

Delivery Boy, people who say that they aren't religious are usually trying to distance themselves from false perceptions of organized religion in an effort to make Christianity more appealing. Religion is about rules and some people would prefer to remove the rules from the equation. However, that can't be done. The word religion derives from the Latin [i]ligere[/i], which means 'to cling on'. Our religious practice, no matter how difficult or unappetising it may seem to others, is all about clinging onto God. It's a wonderful thing, and it is a shame when Christians fall for false definitions of religion.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1461180' date='Feb 13 2008, 02:23 PM']The thing i hear alot now is christians saying their not religious. They follow this up with they have a personal relationship with jesus leading to God. What is it to be religious and are you religious ? Is their anything wrong with being religious ? Are people saying that their not religious denying their faith ? What divides the catholic christian and the non denominational christian ? It seems as if the catholic christian is saying their religious and the non denominatial christian is saying their not.[/quote]

Okay, the only way to wade through this mess it to have someone from the inside (formerly on the inside) of this kind of thinking explain things.

I was part of a church community that spoke in this way. They saw traditions, rituals, ceremonies, written prayers and all things liturgical as 'religion' and therefore as empty. "Those people just mindlessly repeat those written prayers and mindlessly stand up and sit down in their liturgies. [i]THAT[/i] is the spirit of religion. No...we do not do 'religion'. We have a personal relationship with Jesus. I pray from my heart to Jesus; not some dead old prayer written by someone else. I want to know and love Jesus passionately in an intimate way where I can feel his presence and any man-made structure can only get in the way of that..."

That was the mindless chatter that buzzed around in everyone's minds and on everyone's lips. "Religion" was something that stood in the way of God to try and replace him. "My relationship with Jesus" was an apparently uninhibited contact with God.

This is the thinking that pervades so much of modern evangelicalism -- ESPECIALLY THAT OF PENTECOSTALISM.

We, of course, see the flaws in this kind of thinking. Tradition is beautiful: it shows the love and grace of God to us. It is an act of worship in itself and draws our hearts and minds closer to God. Rituals free us from the bondage of trying to manufacture feelings of piety so that we can truly get in contact with God. Whenever there is something special and important in one's life (no matter what denomination you come from), be it a birthday or a wedding, there is always a procession, dimmed lights, rituals and traditions up to one's eyeballs. Far from getting in the way, the traditions incarnate the celebration and make it enjoyable.

Objections to written prayers are especially absurd. Not only because we know they are powerful and teach us about God, but because these pentecostals do something which is ontologically identical to written prayers: their silly, sappy 'worship' songs. Those are all pre-written and are sung over and over again, week after week after week. They do not appear to see the contradiction there.

We know the power and value of 'religion' in the sense that they mean. Far from being empty, it enriches our relationship with God and acknowledges our humanity: we are not disembodied spirits. Yet the clincher is this: the word 'religion' actually derives from ancient words that mean RELATIONSHIP.

So this flies right in the face of these people who say, "Relationship, not religion!" What they are saying is really, "Relationship, not relationship!" This shows that our forebears, when they celebrated these rituals and then called them 'religion', they saw no contradiction between the rituals and a relationship with God. When I told my family and friends all this their faces sank as they realized all those years they had been saying, "Relationship, not relationship!"

Far from being merely what moderns call "spiritual" (where they go to Church once a year), these pentecostals are crazy about going to church every week and getting involved. So it is not the "spiritual" problem; it is the "relationship" problem.

Oh boy,

Philip

[prose]

no post here... keep walking

Edited February 14, 2008 by prose

[prose]

I haven't read previous posts, so I am sorry if I am repeating.

My mantra used to be "I am spiritual just not religious" or "I am spiritual, just not biblical".

What did it mean? IT meant I didn't follow any religion, that I didn't answer to any authority. Basically, I felt God, but I also felt like I could make up religion as I went. It is the creed for relativism. I was a "good" person. I just didn't need a Church.

gah.

How naive I was!!

[cmotherofpirl]

Jesus founded a church, not some disembodied feel-good relationship. "The Church is the pillar and foundation", not a feeling.

[Archaeology cat]

My experience was similar to Lord Philip's. When my church (I was Baptist) spoke of religion, it was to denounce any ritual, liturgy, or written prayer. They taught that the Holy Spirit couldn't work if you structured everything like that. The irony, of course, is that I could write out what the exact order of service for each week would be, because it rarely varied. I could usually tell you what the prayer would be depending on who was praying that week.

Note that I can only speak of my particular Baptist church, though.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[Lil Red]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1461248' date='Feb 13 2008, 03:50 PM']When people speak in that language they're basically saying they don't like to go to church.[/quote]
[quote name='prose' post='1462326' date='Feb 14 2008, 11:07 AM']What did it mean? IT meant I didn't follow any religion, that I didn't answer to any authority. Basically, I felt God, but I also felt like I could make up religion as I went. It is the creed for relativism. I was a "good" person. I just didn't need a Church.[/quote]
what these guys said.

[Guest]

[quote name='Lord Philip' post='1462305' date='Feb 14 2008, 01:31 PM']Okay, the only way to wade through this mess it to have someone from the inside (formerly on the inside) of this kind of thinking explain things.

I was part of a church community that spoke in this way. They saw traditions, rituals, ceremonies, written prayers and all things liturgical as 'religion' and therefore as empty. "Those people just mindlessly repeat those written prayers and mindlessly stand up and sit down in their liturgies. [i]THAT[/i] is the spirit of religion. No...we do not do 'religion'. We have a personal relationship with Jesus. I pray from my heart to Jesus; not some dead old prayer written by someone else. I want to know and love Jesus passionately in an intimate way where I can feel his presence and any man-made structure can only get in the way of that..."

That was the mindless chatter that buzzed around in everyone's minds and on everyone's lips. "Religion" was something that stood in the way of God to try and replace him. "My relationship with Jesus" was an apparently uninhibited contact with God.

This is the thinking that pervades so much of modern evangelicalism -- ESPECIALLY THAT OF PENTECOSTALISM.

We, of course, see the flaws in this kind of thinking. Tradition is beautiful: it shows the love and grace of God to us. It is an act of worship in itself and draws our hearts and minds closer to God. Rituals free us from the bondage of trying to manufacture feelings of piety so that we can truly get in contact with God. Whenever there is something special and important in one's life (no matter what denomination you come from), be it a birthday or a wedding, there is always a procession, dimmed lights, rituals and traditions up to one's eyeballs. Far from getting in the way, the traditions incarnate the celebration and make it enjoyable.

Objections to written prayers are especially absurd. Not only because we know they are powerful and teach us about God, but because these pentecostals do something which is ontologically identical to written prayers: their silly, sappy 'worship' songs. Those are all pre-written and are sung over and over again, week after week after week. They do not appear to see the contradiction there.

We know the power and value of 'religion' in the sense that they mean. Far from being empty, it enriches our relationship with God and acknowledges our humanity: we are not disembodied spirits. Yet the clincher is this: the word 'religion' actually derives from ancient words that mean RELATIONSHIP.

So this flies right in the face of these people who say, "Relationship, not religion!" What they are saying is really, "Relationship, not relationship!" This shows that our forebears, when they celebrated these rituals and then called them 'religion', they saw no contradiction between the rituals and a relationship with God. When I told my family and friends all this their faces sank as they realized all those years they had been saying, "Relationship, not relationship!"

Far from being merely what moderns call "spiritual" (where they go to Church once a year), these pentecostals are crazy about going to church every week and getting involved. So it is not the "spiritual" problem; it is the "relationship" problem.

Oh boy,

Philip[/quote]


that sums it up

[123]

[quote]The thing i hear alot now is christians saying their not religious. They follow this up with they have a personal relationship with jesus leading to God. What is it to be religious and are you religious ? Is their anything wrong with being religious ? Are people saying that their not religious denying their faith ? What divides the catholic christian and the non denominational christian ? It seems as if the catholic christian is saying their religious and the non denominatial christian is saying their not.[/quote]

I guess being Non-religious starts with how one defines religion. You can follow a philosophical system of ethics, and consider that a religion. Others consider the previous merely philosophy, and that religion deals with a person's relationship with a personal or impersonal God. Depending on these interpretations one can consider him/herself as following a "religion" but not believing in God or gods, or being philosophical and going to mass every Sunday.

I agree with what rkwright wrote:

[quote]To me, to be truly non-religious one would have to be either agnostic, atheist, or simply a theist...I think these people are actually just saying they're non-denominational, or they're not in an organized religion.[/quote]

In a broad sense one whom is not religious would be consider as agnostic or atheistic. But, there are "religions" for atheists and agnostics.

...As for Rev. Dollar, I dunno what message he tries to get across, but sometimes "prosperity sermons" and money are not the epitome of the Christian faith. Clinging to worldly things brings suffering in one's life and there is no complete happiness within the illusions of money and desire. These objects fade and never last. I guess if you don't logically breakdown Creflo's sermons these Bible based money schemes can get you attached to the Almighty Dollar, not God.

Edited February 18, 2008 by GloriaIesusChristi

[faithfulrock3r]

you guys all got it right:

"i'm spiritual, but not religious" = BS

[Paddington]

Here are 2 gems from the NT that should make sb think twice.

1 Tim 5:4 "If a widow has children or grandchildren, they should first learn their
[i]religious[/i] duty to their own family and make some repayment to their parents; for this is pleasing in God's sight."

1 James 1:26-27 "If any think they are [i]religious[/i], and do not bridle thir tongues but deceive their hearts, their [i]religion[/i] is worthless. [i]Religion[/i] that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."

Nobody wants to be against the Scriptures and even less when they are talking about helping one's own parents and grandparents as well as orphans and widows.

If this discussion happens, it is also a good chance to share agreement on how religion is warped if it is not the same as a personal relationship with God. You can say that praying off the top of your head is important too. That could lead to "why not do both?"

[Norseman82]

When people say that, it seems to me that they are simply saying that they do not want to be under any authority, particularly that of the Catholic Church. Part of that mentality that I've also seen (among protestants in other forums I used to follow more closely) is that it us up to yourself to determine the right church for you, and the deciding factor is whether or noy YOU feel that the church is in line with YOUR understanding of the bible.