Church Architecture

[Galloglasses]

Alright, we know God doesn't give a hoot about how a person looks, but does He care if a building dedicated to Him looks.... off?

For example, take the Gothic Cathedrals of the Gothic Cathedrals of the Middle Ages, beautiful, aren't they?

[img]http://www.newryandmourne.gov.uk/images/tourism/attractions/newry_cathedral_a.jpg[/img]
Thats the Cathedral of Newry, the city I go to School in.

[img]http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles10433.jpg[/img]
The Cathedral in the city I visit second most then Newry. (Never been inside this one unfortuneately)

Compare these to modern day Architecture in our cathedrals and Church Buildings.

[img]http://www.geocities.com/thomas_hobbs2/brazil/brasilia_cathedral.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.batcafe.com/batblog/archives/maytag1-thumb.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.sacred-destinations.com/usa/images/california/los-angeles/cathedral/los-angeles-cathedral-of-our-lady-of-the-angels-wp-gfdl.jpg[/img]



Also, lets note Old Gothic Stained Glass windows and Modern Cathedral Windows:
[img]http://community.iexplore.com/photos/journal_photos/lr_Window_in_St._Patrick_s_Cathedral.jpg[/img]
From an older Cathedral, (for those of you unaware, the entire point of stained glass windows were to allow the Priest to tell a Gospel and/or Apostalic story or the stories of particular Saints to a mostly illiterate congregation and to help them understand via visualistaion. It continued even during times when congregations could read as by that stage, it became traditional and an artform.)

[img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/LPIPOD/BN19_77~Stained-Glass-Windows-of-the-Modern-Cathedral-Barranquilla-Colombia-Posters.jpg[/img]
From a Modern Cathedral, (and no, I have no idea whats going on in this window either)

I was in Newry Cathedral yesturday and caught a guy photographing the High Altar and various places and at various spots and angles in the Cathedral, there was a wedding schedualed and he was the photographer and he was scoping the place for good spots. I got into talking to him, guy was 50 or so, (by his own admission), and, apparently, a lapsed Catholic who fell in love with his Catholicity and, by goodness, a Traditionalist judging by his leanings and opinions, we had a quick chat regaurding, High Altars, Low Altars, Stained Glass windows, (apparently what he loves most), comparing the Cathedral we were in to a Newer Church a few blocks away in a Prime and photogenic location on top of a green hill in plain veiw of the City below. (Newry is situated in a geographical 'water basin', you'd swear if a good tsunami came along it'd become an on shore Atlantis, cept beneath a lake instead of an ocean. Oddly, the older Churches, of all the Denominations in Newry, Presbyterian, Anglican [not the crasy ones], and Methodist seems to be better looked after then the newer Churches, the Catholic ones especially), the talk was very interesting and it got me thinking. I never like modern art and architecture in the first place, The Modern Churches especially. In some of the ones i've been to, the only redeeming qualities were the statues and and Candles as far as art and taste goes. (Don't worry, the Masses I attended were very reverential, no blasphemies. At least none I could see, cept for one time that I won't go into)

So, discuss, give me your opinions, your arguements, your examples. Fire away, folks.

[Saint_Gemma_Galgani]

I agree, as a simple but beautiful, traditional church lifts ones heart to God, while an ugly, modernist church does not do so.

[Mercy me]

I don't think that it is just church architecture that has gone down hill. I can't think of any architecture that has improved. It has all gotten so square and efficient. There is no beauty anymore.

[CatherineM]

The old churches are certainly majestic. Some new churches look silly as if they are a grad student's senior design project. However, some new churches are simple but still beautiful. Sacred places can be simple but still reverent. The older works of art churches should be maintained for their historic importance, but I don't think we should be investing the money in trying to replicate them in new buildings.

[KnightofChrist]

Its almost as if the ugly modern ones where designed by Atheist.

[mortify]

Church architecture has certainly gone down, as has her music, art, and other things I dare not mention.

Edited May 4, 2008 by mortify

[Greyhawk]

There's actually a book out that addresses this issue called "[url="http://www.amazon.com/Ugly-As-Sin-Churches-Forthright/dp/1928832369/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209870933&sr=8-1"]Ugly as Sin[/url]" by Michael Rose.

[jeffpugh]

I was drooling over the first two churches. Btw, I'm not just an advocate for Sacred Music I am saddened by the modern churches that dot the world now... they're sadly unadorned and the shapes are wrong... many of the pews are set in a semi circle... i guess the thought back in the 70s was to get people to worship "as a community" or something... or maybe even be able to see the Jesus in everyone and worship that (or whatever those silly pagan spirit of vatican two people say/said)

Edited May 4, 2008 by Sacred Music Man

[picchick]

[quote name='Saint_Gemma_Galgani' post='1517754' date='May 3 2008, 10:07 PM']I agree, as a simple but beautiful, traditional church lifts ones heart to God, while an ugly, modernist church does not do so.[/quote]

I don't know. It might for some.


Here is my take. Churches like the first two gothic ones were meant to remind people of heaven when they walked in. I guess the interpretation of heaven for people is different.

I think that if you build a chapel or church you should not cut corners. it is going to be God's house so you better give God the most you can afford.

Take the missions for example. They are not beautiful but are simple. Many of them look like the buildings around them.

I think that it should look like what the bible in Revelation says it should look like. I am too tired to look at the moment. I will when I am less busy.


The modern Churches in the first post still looks like things being uplifted into heaven. There is one that just is plain ugly...even for a house.

I think that they should all have crucifixes if they are all Catholic Churches.

Alright I have more but I cannot post it.

Edited May 4, 2008 by picchick

[Justin86]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1517915' date='May 4 2008, 01:57 PM']I was drooling over the first two churches. Btw, I'm not just an advocate for Sacred Music I am saddened by the modern churches that dot the world now... they're sadly unadorned and the shapes are wrong... many of the pews are set in a semi circle... i guess the thought back in the 70s was to get people to worship "as a community" or something... or maybe even be able to see the Jesus in everyone and worship that (or whatever those silly pagan spirit of vatican two people say/said)[/quote]
Tell me about it. This is the church my sister was baptized in. The round table was where they say Mass, I kid you not.

[img]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/justin86_bucket/Faith/DSC01117.jpg[/img]

I didn't even consider it an altar, it's pit. They have stadium seating so you literally go down to receive communion. It looks ridiculous when they are saying Mass too. Like Father is King Arthur and the deacons are his Knights.

Oh, they had liturgical dancing at the Easter Vigil too. I had to stop myself from bursting out laughing at it. Come to think of it, I've had to stop myself from bursting out laughing several times that I've been there. I can't stand the place.

[Justin86]

[quote name='picchick' post='1517924' date='May 4 2008, 02:15 PM']Take the missions for example. They are not beautiful but are simple. Many of them look like the buildings around them.[/quote]
Well, the missions have more of an excuse for this, being that they are in Third World countries. There is simply no excuse for the poor design of church where my sister was baptized in Virginia.

[Justin86]

I dug up some more photos of that church I was talking about. Here's a photo of a St. Michael statue (St. Michael is the church's patron). Everything looks fine at first glance

[img]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/justin86_bucket/DSC01112.jpg[/img]

Until, that is, you get an up close look at his sword.

[img]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/justin86_bucket/DSC01113.jpg[/img]



What is up with that?

[Galloglasses]

Reminds me of the sword Attila the Hun had. These wavy kinda swords are used in movies, by the bad guys.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1518117' date='May 5 2008, 12:11 AM']Reminds me of the sword Attila the Hun had. These wavy kinda swords are used in movies, by the bad guys.[/quote]
Can it actually do anything though?

[Galloglasses]

Apparently its more effective at giving a clean cut through the flesh of the opponent, however, against armour, I have no idea if its any good or worse.

Actually, how to 'make' wavy swords is beyond me.

[picchick]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1517928' date='May 4 2008, 12:19 AM'][img]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/justin86_bucket/Faith/DSC01117.jpg[/img][/quote]


Ok this is unacceptable. It is against code. Where is Jesus? He is suppose to be in the center. The altar is suppose to be in the East so that everyone is facing the East. How are the people facing the West suppose to see Jesus when He comes. unacceptable.

[StColette]

Sadly, part of the reason for our lack of beautiful architechture that was found in older European and some American Churches is that we no longer can afford such things. Many parishes can barely afford to build their Churches let alone make them extravigant. I do believe they should try a little hard not to make them look so modern. Currently the parish that I work for is finishing up their renovations of their Church. Now from the outside it doesn't look like anything special, still nice looking but nothing like gothic arch. But the inside is beautiful. I would say its more of the inside of the Church that matters. The inside should lift one to the vertical not to the horizontal.

Here's a pic of some of the renovations of the parish I work for. There will be very traditional looking stained glass windows instead of the regular ones that are in the pic.

[img]http://www.stjosephchurch.net/RENO_165_THUMB.jpg[/img]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StColette' post='1518184' date='May 4 2008, 04:14 PM']Sadly, part of the reason for our lack of beautiful architechture that was found in older European and some American Churches is that we no longer can afford such things. Many parishes can barely afford to build their Churches let alone make them extravigant. I do believe they should try a little hard not to make them look so modern. Currently the parish that I work for is finishing up their renovations of their Church. Now from the outside it doesn't look like anything special, still nice looking but nothing like gothic arch. But the inside is beautiful. I would say its more of the inside of the Church that matters. The inside should lift one to the vertical not to the horizontal.[/quote]
Yeah, I agree. My parish is quite old, and yet from the outside it would be difficult to tell it's a church (from the entrance side, the other side you can see stained glass, but that side doesn't face the street). Inside, it's very beautiful and the immediate focus is the Tabernacle.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I believe that churches should be designed in such a way as to make people think of God as soon as they walk in. A Gothic-style church near me has a beautiful vaulted ceiling that draws the eye to the crucifix hanging over the communion rails, as the arches all seem to point in that direction. It's difficult to describe.

That said, I'm wary about criticising any church - no matter how hideous it is - as recent events have made me realise that I should be grateful to have a church at all. I have two very close friends who both want to convert to Catholicism. One is severely autistic and is dependent on her fundamentalist Christian parents for transport and personal care. They won't take her to Mass, so she hasn't been able to go since Easter 2007. (She lives in New Zealand, so I can't be of much help at the moment.) The other friend is in a similar position. Her parents are Jewish. A couple of weeks ago I invited her on a retreat, and her mum agreed to let her go on condition that she could clarify a few things with the local church first. My friend went with her to meet the priests and told me afterward, "I could hardly hide my glee at being inside a Catholic church." I doubt whether she would have cared if it had been the most beautiful edifice ever designed or a concrete-and-metal monstrosity. If you have the privilege of going every Sunday it is easy to forget what it's like not to have any church to go to.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1518485' date='May 4 2008, 10:22 PM']I believe that churches should be designed in such a way as to make people think of God as soon as they walk in. A Gothic-style church near me has a beautiful vaulted ceiling that draws the eye to the crucifix hanging over the communion rails, as the arches all seem to point in that direction. It's difficult to describe.

That said, I'm wary about criticising any church - no matter how hideous it is - as recent events have made me realise that I should be grateful to have a church at all. I have two very close friends who both want to convert to Catholicism. One is severely autistic and is dependent on her fundamentalist Christian parents for transport and personal care. They won't take her to Mass, so she hasn't been able to go since Easter 2007. (She lives in New Zealand, so I can't be of much help at the moment.) The other friend is in a similar position. Her parents are Jewish. A couple of weeks ago I invited her on a retreat, and her mum agreed to let her go on condition that she could clarify a few things with the local church first. My friend went with her to meet the priests and told me afterward, "I could hardly hide my glee at being inside a Catholic church." I doubt whether she would have cared if it had been the most beautiful edifice ever designed or a concrete-and-metal monstrosity. If you have the privilege of going every Sunday it is easy to forget what it's like not to have any church to go to.[/quote]
Thank you for that reminder.