God Conquers Posted February 29, 2004 Posted February 29, 2004 If someone says to you "I forgive you." And you say "I don't accept that" are you forgiven? Forgiveness is a two part deal here. From one end, you may be forgiven, but on your end, you're out of luck. You can't be forgiven unless you realize your mistake, even if the other party is perfectly ready to forgive you.
smeagol Posted March 1, 2004 Posted March 1, 2004 But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest? - Mark Twain's Autobiography
Paladin D Posted March 1, 2004 Posted March 1, 2004 I've heard a couple testimonies of people going to hell, but then being delivered from it. One of them was so shaking up, he couldn't even describe how horrible it was. He also said, that he wasn't even in the far depths of hell.
Paladin D Posted March 2, 2004 Posted March 2, 2004 I have no idea what the guy's name was, but he was a guest on TBN, my family had it on so I decided to watch a little. Well, this guy used to be an athiest with a family and kids. To make a long story short, he died (forgot how) and went to hell. He tried to describe what these demon-like creatures did to him, but he couldn't put in words and started to cry when he tried to. He did say one of the things they did was give him pain, biting him and such, since thats how they got their pleasure. He said he doesn't exactly know how he knew this, but somehow... he knew he wasn't in the depths of hell, somewhat like on the very outer rim of it. Then he said some other stuff I don't quite remember... then he went on to say that he shouted "Jesus save me!" over and over, till Jesus came down and took him out of there. Of course, there is much more he said in greater detail, but that's the generalization of the story. I'm not sure how true it is, but it's worth noting I suppose.
phatcatholic Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 It appears the CC teaches that you have to do something to be forgiven after all. How sad. dairygirl, can you defend this statement for me please? especially the "how sad" part. thanks, phatcatholic
MrsFrozen Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Granted, on a theological level the Church may not be wrong in this area, but on a practical level, her children are not being led to the basics! God loves and has forgiven us! Nothing we ever do can change this fact! Do you mean that no one is in hell, or there is no hell? If someone rejects God's forgiveness, then where do they go? If God forgives them for rejecting Him and then they reject that, then what? God bless. :)
MrsFrozen Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 It appears the CC teaches that you have to do something to be forgiven after all. How sad. So do you believe that we can just sin and sin and sin, and then we go to Heaven even so?
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 If someone rejects God's forgiveness, then where do they go? If God forgives them for rejecting Him and then they reject that, then what? What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell.
the_rev Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Those in Hell have rejected God's forgiveness and all mercy that God showed them. key word: rejected 1033 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining seperated from him for ever by our own free choice. I've heard some priests say that if you are dying and havent' been to confession in several years, and say on your dying breath, forgive me Lord I have sinned, they are sometimes saved from the fires of hell, depending on the kind of life they lived. But this quote to me explains it all!!!!
cmotherofpirl Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. We are saved by our faithfulness shown by our charity. God calls everyone always. We have the choice to answer because we have free will. We are not forgiven because God calls us, we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins. Hell is a choice to reject God. Forgiven people have not rejected God, but embraced Him. They are not in hell.
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins. To me and how I interpret the bible and history, that is one of the saddest statements I have ever heard. But I see that I can say, yes uh and you can say nu uh quite well. So the only thing I can say to cmother and others that take her stance is to ask them this: If you had (or have) a child, do you forgive them only if they say they are sorry and make reparations for the harm they have done? I would imagine that you forgave them even before they asked. I would think you would forgive them, and hope that they choose to do these things regardless of the fact that they don't have to to earn your forgiveness. But you might not think that after all, I could be wrong. Edited March 3, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c
God Conquers Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Except we're not children, and must take responsibility for our actions. By your reasoning everyone is going to heaven regardless of what they have done because God has forgiven them. We have to take ownership of our sins. In order to be forgiven we must realize our sinfulness, our spiritual bankruptcy before God. Only then can we say, I'm sorry and ACCEPT the forgiveness that God is handing to us. We can't be forgiven if we don't realize we need to be. As for reparation, that proves our repentence and honors the one who has forgiven us.
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) I'll quote you what I quoted her: What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. Edited March 3, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c
phatcatholic Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, can you please provide scriptural support and/or early christian testimony to defend your recent posts in this thread. it will also be very helpful if you will define your terminology, b/c it has become apparent to me that we have drastically different definitions for words like "forgiven" and "saved". w/o your proof and these clarifications, your posts are often difficult for me to understand. for example: It appears the CC teaches that you have to do something to be forgiven after all. How sad. as i requested earlier, can you please explain what you are accusing the Church of here, and prove why this is particularly "sad"? What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. didn't u just chastise for "doing something" in order to be forgiven, yet here you defend works for salvation? please explain this apparent contradiction, and prove your claim we are "saved by works of charity" also, in response to the statement, "we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins," you replied by stating: To me and how I interpret the bible and history, that is one of the saddest statements I have ever heard. proof please! why is this sad? You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. i don't understand these statements either. again, providing scriptural support and definitions for your terminology (particularly the words "saved" and "forgiven") will help this dialogue tremendously. thank you and may God Bless You, phatcatholic
phatcatholic Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, i anxiously await your response to my most recent post. pax christi, phatcatholic
MrsFrozen Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 2 2004, 08:55 PM'] So the only thing I can say to cmother and others that take her stance is to ask them this: If you had (or have) a child, do you forgive them only if they say they are sorry and make reparations for the harm they have done? I would imagine that you forgave them even before they asked. I would think you would forgive them, and hope that they choose to do these things regardless of the fact that they don't have to to earn your forgiveness. But you might not think that after all, I could be wrong. [/quote] Yes, but you're forgetting that the forgiveness goes both ways. If my son does something to hurt me, and I forgive him, I have done my part. If he is not sorry and/or continues to hurt me, then he is not doing his part. He has rejected my forgiveness. God bless.
MrsFrozen Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 2 2004, 09:59 PM'] I'll quote you what I quoted her: What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. [/QUOTE] You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. [/quote] Dairygirl, I think I understand what you are saying. Your stance is that we are all forgiven no matter what. But we must embrace God's forgiveness, confess, and repent to go to heaven. Am I correct? God bless.
jmjtina Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 Everyone is forgiven. agreed. Does everyone accept the forgiveness? No. People in Hell have [b]rejected[/b] God's forgiveness, even though they have been forgiven. Out of their own [i]free will[/i] the people in Hell have rejected His love and Mercy. So let me ask you this....do you believe in Hell? If so, then who goes there? If not, why? And how did you come to the conclusion? Peace and God Bless. and I also await your responses to phatcatholic. Please define and be clear of what you say because most of the time I have no clue as to what you mean.
Recommended Posts