Homosexuals And Our Attitude Towards Them

[Alycin]

[quote name='kujo' post='1586705' date='Jun 29 2008, 09:27 PM']I'm glad I passed the infamous Aly-Jerk Test.[/quote]

It's relatively easy to pass. You have to be pretty asstastic not to pass it.

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1586715' date='Jun 29 2008, 10:36 PM']Interesting way to close your post following all that sarcasm.[/quote]

What's your point? I wish peace for everyone at all times. These are just lively discussions; all in good fun. So get over it.

And Peace.

Kiris

[Veridicus]

[quote name='kujo' post='1586718' date='Jun 29 2008, 08:39 PM']Anybody else want to address my comments?[/quote]

As usual, I really liked it too kujo! I thought my initial post was pretty charitable, although I took a more biological and less spiritual approach which apparently was distasteful to some of the other posters.

[kujo]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1586721' date='Jun 29 2008, 10:41 PM']It's relatively easy to pass. You have to be pretty asstastic not to pass it. [/quote]

I have definitely been called alot of things, but "asstastic" has never been one of them.

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1586724' date='Jun 29 2008, 10:43 PM']As usual, I really liked it too kujo! I thought my initial post was pretty charitable, although I took a more biological and less spiritual approach which apparently was distasteful to some of the other posters.[/quote]

I didn't find anything you said uncharitable.

[Jesus_lol]

Kujo, You... are asstastic.




now you can cross that off your list!

[Alycin]

1) I didn't call Kujo asstastic. Two Words: Reading Comprehension.

2) I didn't think Veridicus' posts were uncharitable.

[kujo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1586737' date='Jun 29 2008, 11:03 PM']Kujo, You... are asstastic.
now you can cross that off your list!
[/quote]

Thanks JL!!!

[CatherineM]

I guess the great bustin' bodacious air dUStin missed a word for the fiddler.

[socalscout]

Mmm..Sigh There are thousands of members on Phatmass so topics get recycled every few months. This should not be a surprise. Also it is obvious that no one here knows why homosexuals are homosexuals but that’s ok because we are not homsexuals. I don’t even pretend to know women. (I do know one thing and that is to just shut up and listen when they talk…women that is. This is golden advice to you young men.)

I don’t think I’m painting with a broad brush, vague or unsubstantiated. Do you think this does not happen? Come on now. Society is trying to stuff homosexuality as “the norm” down our throats and we in turn tell them they are a bunch of sinners. I don’t need to substantiate that and I will come up with a boat load if you give me time to research.

Homosexual acts are a sin and offense to God and it is easy to identify the people committing those acts so we drawback and fire as many stone projectiles as possible, walk down our self righteous path feeling happy we have set the sinful straight and we do all this under the guise of “not being PC”. We advise our fellow Christians not to cavort less we validate their sinful behavior. Why would we be seen with Zacchaeus huh?

Hey I’m guilty of it too but no longer. I think everyone should hang out with the sinful. Maybe our piety will rub off huh? All joking aside is that not what we are called to do? Are we not called to “preach the Gospels daily and if necessary use words”? Don’t get me wrong, some people need a slap in the face to get them to see their error but most people don’t.

How many outwardly sinful people have you made think about themselves and God just by being you? It’s happened to me. Sticking to my guns and saying “Yeah I believe in Christ’s teaching and this is why…” and doing it over dinner or with a smile can do more than telling someone they are sinful.

Edited July 2, 2008 by socalscout

[havok579257]

[quote name='socalscout' post='1588676' date='Jul 1 2008, 09:41 PM']Mmm..Sigh There are thousands of members on Phatmass so topics get recycled every few months. This should not be a surprise. Also it is obvious that no one here knows why homosexuals are homosexuals but that’s ok because we are not homsexuals. I don’t even pretend to know women. (I do know one thing and that is to just shut up and listen when they talk…women that is. This is golden advice to you young men.)

I don’t think I’m painting with a broad brush, vague or unsubstantiated. Do you think this does not happen? Come on now. Society is trying to stuff homosexuality as “the norm” down our throats and we in turn tell them they are a bunch of sinners. I don’t need to substantiate that and I will come up with a boat load if you give me time to research.

Homosexual acts are a sin and offense to God and it is easy to identify the people committing those acts so we drawback and fire as many stone projectiles as possible, walk down our self righteous path feeling happy we have set the sinful straight and we do all this under the guise of “not being PC”. We advise our fellow Christians not to cavort less we validate their sinful behavior. Why would we be seen with Zacchaeus huh?

Hey I’m guilty of it too but no longer. I think everyone should hang out with the sinful. Maybe our piety will rub off huh? All joking aside is that not what we are called to do? Are we not called to “preach the Gospels daily and if necessary use words”? Don’t get me wrong, some people need a slap in the face to get them to see their error but most people don’t.

How many outwardly sinful people have you made think about themselves and God just by being you? It’s happened to me. Sticking to my guns and saying “Yeah I believe in Christ’s teaching and this is why…” and doing it over dinner or with a smile can do more than telling someone they are sinful.[/quote]

Definatly agree. We should not be casting stones unless we are without sin.

On a note I hate the christians who go outside gay/lesbian rallies and hold signs saying gays are going to hell, they are damned for life, they are evil and so on. It makes the rest of us sain christian who do not result to name calling look bad.

I look at it this way, why do SOME christians attack just some gays so feverently? I mean I don't see many christians protesting outside an unmarried couples window when they are trying to have sex? So why is it just gays some attack verbally? Last I checked being gay is not a sin. Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin. Only if one acts on those desires is it a sin. So what if someone is gay as long as they don't have sex with the same sex.



Just for clarrification because I know at least one person on these boards, won't name names, will try and twist my words, I am saying SOME christians, not all christians.

[infinitelord1]

I think that most people (especially men) view homosexuality subconciously as a weakness. I think that there is something within us that if we view something as being weaker than ourself that we tend to want to dominate that thing (whatever it may be). Its an aggression. So when a straight man encounters a gay man (the gay man being effeminate) then the straight man goes into this attack mode. Whats the best way to control something? By using its weaknesses against it. The straight man may lash out at the gay man by calling him a Fag, qwerty, etc. This is the straight mans way of showing dominance. I think that this is where hating gays has started. I dont know exactly why people hate certain groups of people. Perhaps they were raised that way. But it had to start somewhere. Unfortunately for the gay man, his biggest "weakness" has just been used against him. This is where oppression starts. The gay man does not know exactly how to change this "weakness" of his. He may even view his homosexuality as a part of himself or being that way for good. Most people who are religious believe homosexuality is morally wrong. What they dont think of is harassing someone for their sin as being morally wrong. Should we not like someone because of a particular sin? Who knows maybe the person is SSA and doesnt live the lifestyle. I always thought that jesus taught us to reach out to those in need. Not squash them by giving them no opportunity to survive. This is why i think gays need rights. A lot of people out there will not let gay people succeed...whether it be a boss etc. In the case that they think you are gay...you will be treated accordingly. It doesnt matter if a gay person lives in celibacy or not. The treatment is the same for both. Nobody can prove that someone is living the lifestyle or not...only the person who is in question.

[Socrates]

[quote name='socalscout' post='1588676' date='Jul 1 2008, 08:41 PM']Mmm..Sigh There are thousands of members on Phatmass so topics get recycled every few months. This should not be a surprise. Also it is obvious that no one here knows why homosexuals are homosexuals but that’s ok because we are not homsexuals. I don’t even pretend to know women. (I do know one thing and that is to just shut up and listen when they talk…women that is. This is golden advice to you young men.)

I don’t think I’m painting with a broad brush, vague or unsubstantiated. Do you think this does not happen? Come on now. Society is trying to stuff homosexuality as “the norm” down our throats and we in turn tell them they are a bunch of sinners. I don’t need to substantiate that and I will come up with a boat load if you give me time to research.[/quote]
Since you seem to be replying to some points I made in my last post here, thought I'd respond.

The fact is that those committing homosexual acts [i]are[/i] sinning, as both the Bible and the unchanging teaching of the Church make clear. We are not doing anyone a favor by pretending they are not.

When the subject of homosexuality (or any other moral question, for matter) is brought up on a Catholic message board, it is not only not wrong, but the [i]duty[/i] of Catholics to make the truth clear, to fulfill the command of the Church to "instruct the ignorant" and "admonish the sinner" - two of the spiritual works of [i]mercy[/i].

If you are accusing us of saying that homosexuals are sinners, then guilty as charged. So did St. Paul. So did Moses. This does not in itself equal uncharity. [i]Failing[/i] to call sin by its right name is the true uncharity.
In your OP, you also insinuated that people were debating whether homosexuals should have rights, when in fact, as I pointed out, no one was making this argument. The only people making this claim are "pro-gay" individuals who claim that "gay marriage" and such are rights owed homosexuals. If opposing "gay marriage" and other special legal privileges makes us "uncharitable" "homophobes," then so's the Pope.

[quote]Homosexual acts are a sin and offense to God and it is easy to identify the people committing those acts so we drawback and fire as many stone projectiles as possible, walk down our self righteous path feeling happy we have set the sinful straight and we do all this under the guise of “not being PC”. We advise our fellow Christians not to cavort less we validate their sinful behavior. Why would we be seen with Zacchaeus huh?

Hey I’m guilty of it too but no longer. I think everyone should hang out with the sinful. Maybe our piety will rub off huh? All joking aside is that not what we are called to do? Are we not called to “preach the Gospels daily and if necessary use words”? Don’t get me wrong, some people need a slap in the face to get them to see their error but most people don’t.

How many outwardly sinful people have you made think about themselves and God just by being you? It’s happened to me. Sticking to my guns and saying “Yeah I believe in Christ’s teaching and this is why…” and doing it over dinner or with a smile can do more than telling someone they are sinful.[/quote]
You bring up some legit points about going out and witnessing to sinners. However, this has little to do with posting on an internet message board. Who are you to judge what kind of witness others are giving or not giving in "real life"?
And let's not forget that Jesus did not simply "hang with sinners," but called them to repent of their sin and follow Him. That's a point many "compassionate" liberals seem to forget.

The much-abused (and apocryphal) quote about "preach the Gospels daily and if necessary use words” does not mean that one should keep silent about Christian and moral truth, but that one's own life should first reflect the Christian message. In other words, practice what you preach. While that is always a good point for all of us to keep in mind, it in no ways means Catholics should keep silent about "controversial" moral truths when such controversy arises on message boards or elsewhere.
If you read the New Testament, you will note that neither Christ nor His Apostles were shy about speaking unpopular truths that people did not want to hear - even "hard teachings" that turned some away.
(One wonders how much of the words of Christ or St. Paul would be sternly rebuked by the "charity police" if spoken by others on here for being "uncharitable" or "un-Christlike"!)

The problem is, there is currently a savage and relentless attack by the world on Christian morality, particularly regarding homosexuality, and much confusion on this issues, even among practicing Catholics.
I was reading a recent (political) article which mentioned that polls now show that 72% of American Catholics under 30 think there is nothing morally wrong with homosexuality (a significantly higher figure than the American public at large - about 50% The numbers for Evangelical youth were somewhat lower).
I don't think anyone can honestly say that Christians, especially Catholics, are doing too much to make Church moral teaching clear.
I think every Catholic has a duty to stand up and preach the truth clearly and unambiguously on this matter.
Like it or not, there's a moral battle going on now, and Catholics need to take a clear and strong stand, rather than dilute the truth or remain silent for fear of offending others.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Socrates

[havok579257]

I agree we need to stand up now more than ever and teach although that does not mean we need to pickett gay/lesbian rallies and such with posters of "Your going to burn in hell" "Homosexuality is a tool of the devil" "God condems the gays". I think the problem is some christians think this is the way we should attack the gay problem in this world. This is the wrong way. Love the sinner, hate the sin I have always heard. Plus, how many converts are we really going to get by trying to bully them into in as opposed to trying to reason with them? Share God's teaching through love, not hate. Its not our duty to condem anyone to hell as we can not even if we wanted to. It is our duty to teach the gospel.

Note: not singling anyone out here, but there are some christians who work like this and its wrong.

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1589804' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:07 AM']I agree we need to stand up now more than ever and teach although that does not mean we need to pickett gay/lesbian rallies and such with posters of "Your going to burn in hell" "Homosexuality is a tool of the devil" "God condems the gays". I think the problem is some christians think this is the way we should attack the gay problem in this world. This is the wrong way. Love the sinner, hate the sin I have always heard. Plus, how many converts are we really going to get by trying to bully them into in as opposed to trying to reason with them? Share God's teaching through love, not hate. Its not our duty to condem anyone to hell as we can not even if we wanted to. It is our duty to teach the gospel.

Note: not singling anyone out here, but there are some christians who work like this and its wrong.[/quote]

The Christian sects that do that are primarily the Westboro Baptist Church and A True Church. They make a lot of news and get a lot of media because they are so outrageous, but every Christian and church, whether Catholic or Protestant, thinks the acts of those involved are deplorable. And they should.

I just wanted to point out that the signs and people you talk about make up a tiny, tiny portion of Christians in the nation. The overwhelming majority do not act this way.

[kujo]

Going off of what Soc was saying, it is our duty as Catholics to preach the Truth. When it comes to things like rape, incest, beastiality, murder, theft...we can instruct in blunt, honest ways because that majority of people accept that all of these things are wrong. Yet, when it comes to topics like pre-marital sex, homosexuality, abortion, or masturbation, a certain degree of finess and sensitivity is in order, for many of those things are so deeply engrained in people's minds and hearts that harshness or being overly-aggressive can actually do more harm than good. So often, in our zeal to do what's right, we can lose sight of the fact that people are injured by sin, and our job is to be the medium wherefore the medicine is applied. A doctor does just come in, throw the medicine at the person and say "Take it or leave it." It's the whole "spoon full of sugar" type thing.