Arrested While Wearing A Phatmass Shirt?

[Justin86]

While a part of me wants to think this is awesome, I simply cannot come up with the logic to justify blocking the entrance to the DNC. Blocking an entrance to an abortion clinic would be one thing, but I can't think of why it would be immoral for the Democrats to meet in Denver. They do talk about more issues than just abortion. I'm also turned off by the one's protester telling his kids they would become a part of history from this protest. Was this about making history books, or the babies?

As for people messing around with nuclear weapons, yes, those nuns do deserve 30 years in jail. They were fiddling around with the most dangerous weapon on the planet with no clue as to what they were doing. What if the thing had gone off? If the nuns wanted to protest nuclear weapons, there are plenty of saner, legal, and most importantly [b]safer[/b] ways of doing so. They should have done those instead.

[fides quarens intellectum]

Justin, i do appreciate your opinion.

As dUSt posted in the election section: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE"]Obama's stance[/url]

As Coffee posted in this thread: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Uw8cs6ASo"]our response[/url]

That's all i have to say.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1641395' date='Aug 29 2008, 11:22 AM']Well, it was clear to all the reporters that we were protesting abortion - they called us "anti-abortion protesters" and "anti-abortion activists."[/quote]


[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1641727' date='Aug 29 2008, 03:00 PM']wrong: well, my boss (an orthodox Roman Catholic priest who knows way more about canon law and Church teaching than i do) said we did nothing against Church teaching and supports me fully. Thanks, though. [/quote]

But the law that you broke had nothing to do with abortion. You may only morally break an unjust law. The law that you broke was designed to protect others' right to free speech, not to protect their "right" to an abortion. This is a just law. You must find a way to protest that does not involve breaking a just law.

If the law had been, similar to [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=84302"][u]the thread about the bill in the UK[/u][/url], one requiring that women not be talked out of having an abortion, I would say that you have every right and [b]responsibility[/b] to break [i]that[/i] law because it is unjust.

I believe that you may have been successful in motivating people who are pro-life, but unwilling to do anything about it, or maybe also in convincing a handful of people who are on the fence on the issue such as the two women you spoke of. However, I believe that people who are ardently pro-choice were made even more so by your efforts to limit their free speech.

They see the issue as one of liberty, not one of life. That's why they call themselves "pro-choice" and not "anti-life". While liberty is all well and good, we are not free to do as we wish when what we want is to kill another person. It is an issue of life, not choice. [b]Your actions against their liberty only succeeded in focusing the issue on choice, not life[/b]. It confirms [i]to them[/i] that pro-lifers are "anti-choice". We do not want to attack choice or liberty, we want to defend the right to life, which trumps the right to liberty. I am always frustrated when pro-lifers attack the abortion issue based on their perception that there is no right to privacy. This is stupid! There [b]is[/b] a right to privacy, but that right is trumped by the right to life -- we don't have the right to kill someone in private.

We need to focus the battle over abortion on the [b]right to life[/b], not on attacks against choice, liberty, or privacy. This action produced the opposite.

Blessings,
Kris

[Adrestia]

You may disagree with the style of protest, but you cannot say that the protest hurt their cause. The fact is that none of us can say with any authority how the Holy Spirit should move others to act. We also should refrain from guessing how the DNC participants will respond. It was pro-life activists that aided in the conversion of "Jane Roe" many years ago.

[Adrestia]

How can you read this and think that the Holy Spirit wasn't involved?

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1641442' date='Aug 29 2008, 10:56 AM']i have also had two women come up to me crying because their hearts had been opened, and to me, that was worth 10 hours in jail, a headache, and a pile of work to catch up on this weekend.[/quote]

To quote F.Q.I., "Wake Up!"

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1642999' date='Aug 30 2008, 11:55 PM']While a part of me wants to think this is awesome, I simply cannot come up with the logic to justify blocking the entrance to the DNC. Blocking an entrance to an abortion clinic would be one thing, but I can't think of why it would be immoral for the Democrats to meet in Denver. They do talk about more issues than just abortion. I'm also turned off by the one's protester telling his kids they would become a part of history from this protest. Was this about making history books, or the babies?

As for people messing around with nuclear weapons, yes, those nuns do deserve 30 years in jail. They were fiddling around with the most dangerous weapon on the planet with no clue as to what they were doing. What if the thing had gone off? If the nuns wanted to protest nuclear weapons, there are plenty of saner, legal, and most importantly [b]safer[/b] ways of doing so. They should have done those instead.[/quote]

totally agree. Thank you and thanks Kevin, too.

tgoldson- As Kevin already said, this is not about how the Holy Spirit acts. The Holy Spirit may act as he wishes. However, We cannot act unjustly to bring about a just result. We may not act unjustly with the assumption that the Holy Spirit may use our actions. This WAS an action against liberty. Democrats have the right to gather ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT.

[Justin86]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1642993' date='Aug 31 2008, 12:51 PM']Well, we were standing out in the sun for what felt like at least an hour, waiting for each arrestee to be logged/photoed/frisked before placed in the paddy wagons.

We each had two arresting officers, and they were very polite with us, chatting with us, and sometimes cracking jokes with us. They gave us bottled water, apologized for the plastic cuffs being tight, thanked us for the head's up beforehand, helped us get around, pointed out curbs/told us to watch our step, repeatedly asked if we were okay, told us this was much easier than the protests the day before, and at least one of them thanked another arrestee for what we were doing. Most of them were from Aurora PD, a neighboring town, so they were unfamiliar with Denver's arresting sheets and such, so while they were comparing notes with each other on how to fill out the forms, they were joking with us about how they didn't know as much as the Denver cops.

That's what i mean by they were really wonderful - they knew we were doing this as an anti-abortion statement, and they really made the initial arrest as easy as it possibly could have been.[/quote]
Yeah, that makes sense. Cops care about their image very much, and they know that civil disobedience, while a crime, is a permanent feature of American political life ever since MLK used it to win. They know better than to be rough with you, especially if you called them beforehand, because you'll probably file some sort of police brutality lawsuit if they were.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1643257' date='Aug 31 2008, 09:34 AM']totally agree. Thank you and thanks Kevin, too.

tgoldson- As Kevin already said, this is not about how the Holy Spirit acts. The Holy Spirit may act as he wishes. However, We cannot act unjustly to bring about a just result. We may not act unjustly with the assumption that the Holy Spirit may use our actions. This WAS an action against liberty. Democrats have the right to gather ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT.[/quote]
This is totally about God's will. The Democrats have every right to do whatever they want. The protesters felt called by God to disrupt their gathering. The fact that you consider it to be unjust does not make it so. (It was a peaceful protest... they didn't chain or cement themselves in place, they didn't fight.) My issue with Kevin was his incorrect use of the word "scandal" and confusing his personal opinion with God's will.

Given the opportunity, I would not have chosen to join this type of protest. However, far be it from me to judge their intentions or the dispositions of their hearts.

[dominicansoul]

AFter all the legal experts have had their say against the actions of FQI and co. I just wanna add one more thing. All this reminds me of the Pharisees who attacked Jesus and His apostles for pulling wheat heads off wheat while walking through a field on the Sabbath day. The Pharisees were more concerned on the letter of the law than anything else. Their legalese blinded them to the fact that it was actually God walking through that field tearing off the heads of wheat. They readily condemned the Creator of the Sabbath, for breaking the Sabbath! And yet, we all know the Pharisees were guilty of a far greater crime. I think it's time for us to ease up on FQI for what y'all consider such an egregious act of injustice. FQI and co. were not blocking all the entrances. [b]From what I know, they were [i]barely[/i] blocking one[/b]. It was a stunt to get the attention they were looking for in order to protest against the dem's staunch murderous agenda against the unborn and infants. If FQI and co. were bombing the place, it would be a different thing, but c'mon, GEEZ! This was barely a scratch on the surface of "breaking the law!"

And you just don't know....Jesus was probably right there beside her! I wouldn't condemn Him if He was...

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1642993' date='Aug 30 2008, 11:51 PM']Well, we were standing out in the sun for what felt like at least an hour, waiting for each arrestee to be logged/photoed/frisked before placed in the paddy wagons.

We each had two arresting officers, and they were very polite with us, chatting with us, and sometimes cracking jokes with us. They gave us bottled water, apologized for the plastic cuffs being tight, thanked us for the head's up beforehand, helped us get around, pointed out curbs/told us to watch our step, repeatedly asked if we were okay, told us this was much easier than the protests the day before, and at least one of them thanked another arrestee for what we were doing. Most of them were from Aurora PD, a neighboring town, so they were unfamiliar with Denver's arresting sheets and such, so while they were comparing notes with each other on how to fill out the forms, they were joking with us about how they didn't know as much as the Denver cops.

That's what i mean by they were really wonderful - they knew we were doing this as an anti-abortion statement, and they really made the initial arrest as easy as it possibly could have been.[/quote]
wow. that's pretty interesting. not the response i would have expected... the water thing seemed to be going out of their way...

[quote name='Justin86' post='1643265' date='Aug 31 2008, 11:01 AM']Yeah, that makes sense. Cops care about their image very much, and they know that civil disobedience, while a crime, is a permanent feature of American political life ever since MLK used it to win. They know better than to be rough with you, especially if you called them beforehand, because you'll probably file some sort of police brutality lawsuit if they were.[/quote]
oh, i see. oh well, still pretty cool i guess.

[fides quarens intellectum]

my turn to say thanks - to Tgolds and DomSoul...

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1643713' date='Aug 31 2008, 08:56 PM']AFter all the legal experts have had their say against the actions of FQI and co. I just wanna add one more thing. All this reminds me of the Pharisees who attacked Jesus and His apostles for pulling wheat heads off wheat while walking through a field on the Sabbath day. The Pharisees were more concerned on the letter of the law than anything else. Their legalese blinded them to the fact that it was actually God walking through that field tearing off the heads of wheat. They readily condemned the Creator of the Sabbath, for breaking the Sabbath! And yet, we all know the Pharisees were guilty of a far greater crime. I think it's time for us to ease up on FQI for what y'all consider such an egregious act of injustice. FQI and co. were not blocking all the entrances. [b]From what I know, they were [i]barely[/i] blocking one[/b]. It was a stunt to get the attention they were looking for in order to protest against the dem's staunch murderous agenda against the unborn and infants. If FQI and co. were bombing the place, it would be a different thing, but c'mon, GEEZ! This was barely a scratch on the surface of "breaking the law!"

And you just don't know....Jesus was probably right there beside her! I wouldn't condemn Him if He was...[/quote]

wow. all glory to God.


Peace in Christ, peoples
-fides

[MamaHen]

I wish I had your guts! My prayers go out to you and all those who are fighting for God!

[kujo]

I wonder what our reaction would've been if pro-choice advocates were to block the entrance to the RNC.

Edited September 2, 2008 by kujo

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='kujo' post='1645699' date='Sep 2 2008, 05:59 PM']I wonder what our reaction would've been if pro-choice advocates were to block the entrance to the RNC.[/quote]

well, Kujo, we'll discuss it when you get back, okay?

Edited September 3, 2008 by fides quarens intellectum

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

you're my hero

[kujo]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1645839' date='Sep 2 2008, 10:54 PM']well, Kujo, we'll discuss it when you get back, okay?

[/quote]

You can't be serious.

I resent your insinuation that I am [i]in any conceivable way[/i] pro-choice. Just because I don't support your actions [b]DOES NOT[/b] make me pro-choice. I am pro-life, from conception to natural death. I am thoroughly opposed to abortion and have attended the March for Life for 3 consecutive years to voice that opposition. I have participated in peaceful abortion protests--in front of abortion mills, in the court yard of my high school, around my college campus-- and have endured numerous slanders against my name for proudly proclaiming my pro-life stance by wearing t-shirts, putting stickers on my backpack and folders. Finally, I have taken any chance I could get to minister to and have used my area of study to provide criticism of all legal aspects of [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] and the litany of other SCOTUS cases dealing with abortion.

I don't say this to receive accolades, but to point out that I am NOT pro-choice. Get your facts straight, my dear friend. We are on the same side. Don't mistake my opposition to the way you and your comrades protest for animosity.

Edited September 3, 2008 by kujo

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='kujo' post='1645875' date='Sep 2 2008, 09:29 PM']You can't be serious.[/quote]



i totally was NOT being serious - i mistakenly thought by now you would have realized that i can be a bit of a smart aleck. Sorry for ticking you off.

Peace in Christ,
-fides

[Selah]

I'm scared.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Selah' post='1645908' date='Sep 2 2008, 10:04 PM'] I'm scared.[/quote]of whom?


Word on the street is that the protest effected the change of many hearts. Props to the Holy Spirit and those who humbly accept His direction.

[Selah]

[quote]of whom?[/quote]

lol. I was just being silly. It was directed at Kujo and fides