Obama And Gun Ownership

[Apotheoun]

You forgot to mention the Teletubbies. There is something very sinister about them.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1708128' date='Nov 22 2008, 08:09 PM']Did you mean "he's not done anything..."?

Oh, and he has.

(Unless you mean as President, which is a moronic argument, considering he's not even President Elect yet.)[/quote]
No, I meant you've. The ability to own a gun has a lot to do with your own actions. If you are a law abiding citizen, you can own a gun.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1709940' date='Nov 24 2008, 02:46 PM']No, I meant you've. The ability to own a gun has a lot to do with your own actions. If you are a law abiding citizen, you can own a gun.[/quote]

Except in New York, and most other large cities.

[Justin86]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1710431' date='Nov 25 2008, 04:42 PM']Except in New York, and most other large cities.[/quote]
Didn't the Supreme Court overrule hand gun law bans?

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1710529' date='Nov 25 2008, 03:23 AM']Didn't the Supreme Court overrule hand gun law bans?[/quote]

Outright bans yes (which Obama wholeheartedly supports), but not the restrictive licensing regulations (ie only the rich, important, good people can get them) that cities like New York have.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1710431' date='Nov 25 2008, 01:42 AM']Except in New York, and most other large cities.[/quote]
See, the issue isn't with one giant government conspiracy, it's with the bureaucrats all over the country separately.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1710538' date='Nov 25 2008, 06:37 AM']Outright bans yes (which Obama wholeheartedly supports), but not the restrictive licensing regulations (ie only the rich, important, good people can get them) that cities like New York have.[/quote]

Chicago's ban, which has been in place sincce April of 1982 or 1983 and which prohibits new registrations, hasn't fallen yet.

The Illinois State Rifle Association filed suit against Chicago 15 minutes after the Heller decision was handed down. The General Secratary - I mean mayor - is fighting the lawsuit, saying things like the Supreme Court decision doesn't apply to Chicago because of the special status of the District of Columbia.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1710671' date='Nov 25 2008, 09:13 AM']See, the issue isn't with one giant government conspiracy, it's with the bureaucrats all over the country separately.[/quote]

Um, how did you come to that conclusion?

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1710682' date='Nov 25 2008, 09:25 AM']Chicago's ban, which has been in place sincce April of 1982 or 1983 and which prohibits new registrations, hasn't fallen yet.

The Illinois State Rifle Association filed suit against Chicago 15 minutes after the Heller decision was handed down. The General Secratary - I mean mayor - is fighting the lawsuit, saying things like the Supreme Court decision doesn't apply to Chicago because of the special status of the District of Columbia.[/quote]

Except that state law cannot supersede Federal law, or the Constitution. If you use that argument, then State laws banning abortion will have to stand.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1710693' date='Nov 25 2008, 10:35 AM']Um, how did you come to that conclusion?[/quote]
Because these laws aren't coming out of the President's office. They've been around, for longer than half the politicians we have in office. It's a fundamental disagreement between those who feel safer with guns and those who feel more at risk with guns.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1710682' date='Nov 25 2008, 10:25 AM']Chicago's ban, which has been in place sincce April of 1982 or 1983 and which prohibits new registrations, hasn't fallen yet.

The Illinois State Rifle Association filed suit against Chicago 15 minutes after the Heller decision was handed down. The General Secratary - I mean mayor - is fighting the lawsuit, saying things like the Supreme Court decision doesn't apply to[b] Chicago [/b]because of the special status of the [b]District of Columbia[/b].[/quote]

[Guest FockeWulf]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1710825' date='Nov 25 2008, 04:00 PM']Because these laws aren't coming out of the President's office. They've been around, for longer than half the politicians we have in office. It's a fundamental disagreement between those who feel safer with guns and those who feel more at risk with guns.[/quote]

That doesn't mean that there won't be soon enough, nor that they haven't tried in the past. What was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed under the Clinton administration, which Obama has promised to pass again and further extend? Or Obama's plan to overturn the Tiahart Amendment? You can read about all of it at Change.gov, his own transition website. The problem isn't placated by the fact that this argument has been around for some time, the problem stems from the fact that we now face a majority in Congress (and a President) that are part of a party that has been vociferously anti-gun.

I don't see it as much of a fundamental disagreement, it's more of a rational argument backed by American tradition and sound statistics on crime and gun ownership vs. an irrational, hoplophobic, gun-grabbing mentality that seeks to try and repress crimes, violence, and accidents by attacking the tools rather than the root cause. There is a reason that home invasion and robberies have skyrocketed in England and Australia after they went ahead and banned guns, criminals there have nothing to fear now.

Crime wont be stopped by stricter registration laws, felons can't buy guns as it is under the CURRENT system, and most crimes are committed with guns bought on the black market. Maybe if America took a step back and looked at its culture, what, as a society, it values, its twisted mores, and lack of faith, maybe then it might start to find some of the more foundational reasons for (not causes Libs, sorry, the cause is the individual) crime et cetera.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='FockeWulf' post='1711526' date='Nov 26 2008, 01:24 PM']Crime wont be stopped by stricter registration laws, felons can't buy guns as it is under the CURRENT system, and most crimes are committed with guns bought on the black market. Maybe if America took a step back and looked at its culture, what, as a society, it values, its twisted mores, and lack of faith, maybe then it might start to find some of the more foundational reasons for (not causes Libs, sorry, the cause is the individual) crime et cetera.[/quote]

The problem is that a law is only as good as its enforcement. Instead of passing new laws, try enforcing the old ones first. Trace a gun and go after the black market, which is what I heard Giuliani did in New York. I know in Chicago, many of the guns used by gangs come from gun-runners that get them from Mississippi; shutting down that pipeline will do more to keep the streets safe than outlawing law-abiding people from defending themselves.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1710867' date='Nov 25 2008, 03:52 PM'][/quote]

The District of Columbia is technically a federal district and not a normal state or city, so technically it is under the jurisdiction of Congress. That is why our General Secretary, I mean mayor, thinks that the ruling does not apply to states. Which is interesting, because all the surrounding suburbs got rid of their handgun bans, even though part of the reason is that they did not want to spend the $$$ on litigation, and Daley seems ready to waste my $$$ on a losing court fight even with a $400 million budget shortfall.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1711545' date='Nov 26 2008, 01:53 PM']The District of Columbia is technically a federal district and not a normal state or city[/quote]

Just wait.

[Winchester]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1710825' date='Nov 25 2008, 03:00 PM']It's a fundamental disagreement between those who feel safer with guns and those who feel more at risk with guns.[/quote]
Actually, it's emotional bull poo.