What If The World Didn't Need A Messiah?

[kafka]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1739137' date='Dec 30 2008, 06:46 PM']The Church is infallible.[/quote]
The Magisterium is infallible when it teaches under certain conditions.

I meant among the faithful and in the world there are many errors being taught among Catholic priests, theologians, scholars, laity, and media.

You're fishing.

Edited December 30, 2008 by kafka

[Apotheoun]

Energy is a biblical term, an example of its use can be seen in Philippians (2:13):

"For it is God who energizes (ενεργών) in you both to will and to energize (ενεργείν) for His good pleasure."

Edited December 30, 2008 by Apotheoun

[kafka]

{2:13} Deus est enim, qui operatur in vobis et velle, et perficere pro bona voluntate.

{2:13} For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.

{2:13} For it is God who works in you, both so as to choose, and so as to act, in accord with his good will.


~ Here the Spirit is teaching us that the grace of God moves us, or better effects us before, during, and after all the good works we have/shall accomplish according to His will. The grace of Jesus Christ is before, during, and after all good intentions/acts/consequences, namely all the moral acts of us!

Apotheoun perhaps, Divine energy as used by the Eastern Fathers is another phrase for

sanctifying grace

terms are not truths in themselves, they merely point or show the way to Truth.

Edited December 31, 2008 by kafka

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='kafka' post='1739046' date='Dec 30 2008, 04:50 PM']As Frenchfry pointed out His Divine Nature is eternal, his human nature had a beginning. Still you sort of make a point. The Divine and Human Natures are mystically united, therefore Jesus Christ is in a way beyond time and place:[/quote]

Hmm... I'd like to find that in the Catechism or some authoritative document. No offense to Frenchfry... even if he was Fr. Frenchfry, I'd want to get it from the source... I might trust Cardinal Frenchfry A lot of heresies are rooted in very subtle misunderstandings about the nature of God, so regardless of which one it is, we should all make sure we get it right.

I probably should be more specific: We agree Jesus' human [i]flesh[/i] had a beginning in time and space, but how do we know that his human [i]nature[/i] was not pre-existing? Are Adam and Eve not a testimony to the eternal human nature of Christ, because Scripture says "in the image of God he created them?" Seems like the reason Scripture makes this testimony is because they shared the human nature of the Son of God.

[Apotheoun]

The Logos assumed human nature from the Theotokos at a particular moment in time, which means that Christ's human nature is not in itself eternal, nor does it pre-exist its assumption by the Logos. Nevertheless, one can speak of the human nature assumed by the Logos as taking on eternity, because it is actualized by the eternal act of being of the Logos and so it is permeated with divine energy.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1740639' date='Jan 1 2009, 05:19 PM']Nevertheless, one can speak of the human nature assumed by the Logos as taking on eternity, because it is actualized by the eternal act of being of the Logos and so it is permeated with divine energy.[/quote]

Yes! I knew I was right!

Just kidding... that sounds similar to the Immaculate Conception being a fruit of grace from the eternal sacrifice of the Cross being applied to Mary at an earlier point in time. So, even though Christ does not assume a human nature until the Anunciation, does that also apply to all points in time, so that Christ also shares both natures at the Creation?

Which would mean I'm sorta right, but not for the right reason.

[LouisvilleFan]

Maybe Desmond can weigh in on this? Whether my opinion was right or not, I am curious to know what the truth is. After all, I'm sure it has some significant implications elsewhere in theology as so many heresies seem to be rooted in a false understanding of the Trinity.

[Apotheoun]

Here is what St. John Damascene says about the incarnation:

[size=3]For the Word Himself became flesh, having been in truth conceived of the Virgin, but coming forth as God with the assumed nature which, as soon as He was brought forth into being, was deified by Him, so that these three things took place simultaneously, the assumption of our nature, the coming into being, and the deification of the assumed nature by the Word. And thus it is that the holy Virgin is thought of and spoken of as the Mother of God, not only because of the nature of the Word, but also because of the deification of man's nature, the miracles of conception and of existence being wrought together, to wit, the conception the Word, and the existence of the flesh in the Word Himself. For the very Mother of God in some marvelous manner was the means of fashioning the Framer of all things and of bestowing manhood on the God and Creator of all, Who deified the nature that He assumed, while the union preserved those things that were united just as they were united, that is to say, not only the divine nature of Christ but also His human nature, not only that which is above us but that which is of us. For He was not first made like us and only later became higher than us, but ever from His first coming into being He existed with the double nature, because He existed in the Word Himself from the beginning of the conception.[/size]

[LouisvilleFan]

That seems to answer it... I also noticed in the Liturgy of the Hours for Dec 29th (I fell behind a bit) a sermon by St. Bernard that closes, "Truly great and manifest are the goodness and humanity of God. He has given us a most wonderful proof of his goodness by adding humanity to his own divine nature."