kujo Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 There are a lot of people incarcerated at Gitmo who CANNOT and WILL NOT be tried because there is very little proof that they have done anything wrong. And the whole "getting information out of them" argument is lame and moot until someone proves to me that it has actually happened. "I fear you doth speak on the rack, where men enforced speak anything." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) It may take time to truly learn what was happening there, but this was a good decision, regardless of what was happening there. With the suspicion that there was, [i]concerning the violations of human dignity or liberty[/i], [u]this was a good choice[/u]. As a conservative I like conserving liberty and our resources and as a liberal I like to advance our liberties and resources. No one is purely conservative or liberal, these are just flash words in our culture today, rather non-descriptive. Edited January 22, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1758675' date='Jan 22 2009, 05:35 PM']No one is purely conservative or liberal, these are just flash words in our culture today, rather non-descriptive.[/quote] Yeah. Especially considering historically, "liberalism" is viewed as the driving force behind republicanism, democracy and property-rights while "conservatism" is its antecedent, favoring monarchy and divine-right kingships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1758544' date='Jan 22 2009, 12:46 PM']Fidel Castro thinks so too. He is singing Obama's praises. You do realize the people at Gitmo fall into three groups - 1) The US does not intend to try them, but they cannot return home because they would be tortured and no other country is willing to accept them. 2) They are on trial for terrorist attacks against the US - killing innocent men, women, and children on US soil. 3) Detainees (criminals) that the US cannot try, but can provide information to prevent further terror attacks. Thank you Obama for remembering the families and those who perished on 9/11.[/quote] I don't see any reason that these people cannot be detained on US soil, if needed, following the established laws of our nation. It's only category 3 that is questionable anyway, and by now, how out-of-the loop must these detainees be? How could they have useful information after years in prison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 [quote name='philothea' post='1758688' date='Jan 22 2009, 05:41 PM']I don't see any reason that these people cannot be detained on US soil, if needed, following the established laws of our nation. It's only category 3 that is questionable anyway, and by now, how out-of-the loop must these detainees be? How could they have useful information after years in prison?[/quote] [b]EXACTLY![/b] I think category 3 is bogus anyway until someone demonstrates to me that a subject under this category has yielded actionable intelligence. And, in the event that there is 1, I'll still say it's not enough to trample over our convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='missionseeker' post='1758519' date='Jan 22 2009, 01:07 PM'][url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_suspected_terrorists"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_...cted_terrorists[/url][/quote] I'm extremely pleased to hear this. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1758591' date='Jan 22 2009, 01:57 PM']The difference between your thinking and the thinking of our country is that the U.S. doesn't throw out it's values just because these people are "different." They'll get what they deserve, in the end, regardless of how or where they're detained. We might as well practice what we preach. If you spend some time researching, you'll actually find out that mutual respect, a tactic used by interrogators, has been the most effective means thus far in getting information.[/quote] So we're giving them to American jury trials? The same people who don't want to ruin child molestor's lives? Seriously? The same people who award millions to people who burn their laps with hot coffee? Why not just give them a nuclear device as a door prize on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 winchester, you now have the best avatar ever. i am really happy to hear about this. i am glad to see he hasn't wasted anytime following through on promises, good to see. if you cant hold them on US soil, and give them a fair trial, what right do you have to hold them at all? some of the people that have been held there are astounding. a 15year old boy, with a seriously messed up family, who killed an american soldier during a firefight has been there 3 years now i think? hello?! its a kid! he killed someone in combat, like a soldier not a terrorist! yeesh. anyways keeping them locked up that long with no charges only makes them and their friends and family hate the USA more. quickest way to make a terrorist. i know that if i was plucked off the streets and locked up in a horrible place for years without charges, i would be itching to bomb the people responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Rep Murtha of Pa has offered to house them in our state - it was pointed out today this would be a fair swap if Gitmo would keep him instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1758851' date='Jan 22 2009, 08:38 PM']. a 15year old boy, with a seriously messed up family, who killed an american soldier during a firefight has been there 3 years now i think? hello?! its a kid! he killed someone in combat, like a soldier not a terrorist! yeesh.[/quote] 15 year olds from there are not like our 15 year olds. POWs are not charged and not usually released prior to the end of the conflict. While they are not exactly POWs, they are not the same as regular prisoners. They are enemy combatants more than simple criminals. Access to Cuba is easier to control. Access into the US will be easier. They might provide an attractive target for terrorists. I don't think we should have any idea what happens to them. It should be completely secret what befalls those who assist islamofascism. They aren't ordinary criminals. This is not an ordinary situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='kujo' post='1758691' date='Jan 22 2009, 05:45 PM'][b]EXACTLY![/b] I think category 3 is bogus anyway until someone demonstrates to me that a subject under this category has yielded actionable intelligence. And, in the event that there is 1, I'll still say it's not enough to trample over our convictions.[/quote] And what then shall we do to the #1's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1758830' date='Jan 22 2009, 07:19 PM']So we're giving them to American jury trials? The same people who don't want to ruin child molestor's lives? Seriously? The same people who award millions to people who burn their laps with hot coffee? Why not just give them a nuclear device as a door prize on the way out.[/quote] [quote name='Winchester' post='1758884' date='Jan 22 2009, 08:09 PM']15 year olds from there are not like our 15 year olds. POWs are not charged and not usually released prior to the end of the conflict. While they are not exactly POWs, they are not the same as regular prisoners. They are enemy combatants more than simple criminals. Access to Cuba is easier to control. Access into the US will be easier. They might provide an attractive target for terrorists. I don't think we should have any idea what happens to them. It should be completely secret what befalls those who assist islamofascism. They aren't ordinary criminals. This is not an ordinary situation.[/quote] This nation is governed by rule of law. Just because your emotions run high and you feel angry about what these people did (or could do) doesn't mean you get to throw the law out the window and do as you please. That's exactly why the prison is being closed and exactly why it was the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 And what rule of law is being violated by the detention center in Gitmo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1758924' date='Jan 22 2009, 10:56 PM']And what then shall we do to the #1's?[/quote] Prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law, either here or in their countries of origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='Saint Therese' post='1758945' date='Jan 22 2009, 10:34 PM']And what rule of law is being violated by the detention center in Gitmo?[/quote] The Geneva Conventions. Do some research for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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