jkaands Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I guess that it's easier to rail against habits that look like suits; cathedrals that aren't copies of Chartres (that no one could afford to build today anyway, except the Episcopalians); free form masses (that aren't performed much now anyway)--than against a newly promoted bishop that thinks that Katrina was God's punishment for New Orleans' wicked wicked ways; that women shouldn't go to university or wear pants; that the Holocaust never existed AND that 9/11 was an inside job; and that SSPX has an anti-Semitic streak a mile wide.
Vincent Vega Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1768990' date='Feb 1 2009, 10:18 PM']I guess that it's easier to rail against habits that look like suits; cathedrals that aren't copies of Chartres (that no one could afford to build today anyway, except the Episcopalians); free form masses (that aren't performed much now anyway)--than against a newly promoted bishop that thinks that Katrina was God's punishment for New Orleans' wicked wicked ways; that women shouldn't go to university or wear pants; that the Holocaust never existed AND that 9/11 was an inside job; and that SSPX has an anti-Semitic streak a mile wide.[/quote]
cmotherofpirl Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1768990' date='Feb 1 2009, 10:18 PM']I guess that it's easier to rail against habits that look like suits; cathedrals that aren't copies of Chartres (that no one could afford to build today anyway, except the Episcopalians); free form masses (that aren't performed much now anyway)--than against a newly promoted bishop that thinks that Katrina was God's punishment for New Orleans' wicked wicked ways; that women shouldn't go to university or wear pants; that the Holocaust never existed AND that 9/11 was an inside job; and that SSPX has an anti-Semitic streak a mile wide.[/quote] Like I said they need to repudiate all the cr.ap on their website.
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Jesus Christ is the sole savior of mankind, and so anyone who is saved is saved by His incarnation, passion, death, and resurrection.
Vincent Vega Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769000' date='Feb 1 2009, 10:28 PM']Jesus Christ is the sole savior of mankind, and so anyone who is saved is saved by His incarnation, passion, death, and resurrection.[/quote] Did you reply to the right thread?
HisChildForever Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1768990' date='Feb 1 2009, 09:18 PM']that women shouldn't go to university or wear pants[/quote] Clearly you read none of my posts.
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1769028' date='Feb 1 2009, 07:45 PM']Did you reply to the right thread?[/quote] Yes, I did. I just thought that I would remind everyone of the fact that Rabbinic Judaism -- like the Arian heresy and other ancient heresies -- is not salvific.
Lil Red Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1768514' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:24 AM'][b] 'Deep concerns' In a letter dated Thursday, some 50 Catholic members of the U.S. Congress wrote to Benedict to express their “deep concerns” over the pope’s decision to reinstate Williamson while the bishop was denying that the Holocaust occurred. “We do not question your reasons for revoking the excommunication of Bishop Williamson or your right to do so, but we fail to understand why the revocation was not accompanied by an emphatic public rejection of his denial of the Holocaust,” the letter said. The bishop’s remarks about the Holocaust “echo those of neo-Nazis, Islamist extremists, racists and others who choose hatred and violence over peaceful co-existence among peoples of all races and ethnicities,” the lawmakers said, adding that they welcomed Benedict’s expression of solidarity with the Jewish people. [/b][/quote] +J.M.J.+ and what of their 'deep concerns' for holding beliefs contrary to the Catholic faith? such as being Catholic and pro-abortion?? (not at you, just in general)
Lil Red Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 +J.M.J.+ [quote name='Aloysius' post='1768529' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:39 AM']Not that the Holy Father agrees with all their views, but I believe he wants their side of the spectrum IN for the benefit of really seeing Vatican II in the light of tradition by having people dedicated to tradition from before the council in the Church and he wants the liberal side of interpretting the council OUT. In essence, if you're going to have reservations about the council, you'd better be having them because you think it went too far from the past Magisteriums and not because you don't think it went far enough away from them.[/quote] Interesting, thank you. [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1768664' date='Feb 1 2009, 02:15 PM']Interesting discussion, but not valid. The Pope will determine the validity of what happens with the SSPX, and not the members of Phatmass.[/quote] and thank goodness too! [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1768669' date='Feb 1 2009, 02:17 PM']The Church Fathers held that "speculation" leads to heresy and schism.[/quote] [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1768701' date='Feb 1 2009, 02:32 PM']No, my wish is made out of a desire for the SSPX -- with all of their traditionalist views on matters of doctrine and morality -- to be restored to communion with the Catholic Church, so that they can help to bring about a renewal in the Latin Church.[/quote] amen.
Vincent Vega Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769039' date='Feb 1 2009, 10:50 PM']Yes, I did. I just thought that I would remind everyone of the fact that Rabbinic Judaism -- like the Arian heresy and other ancient heresies -- is not salvific.[/quote] I see.
Resurrexi Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Bishop Bernard Fellay welcomed "Famille Chrétienne" [French Catholic weekly] on January 31, in his General House of Menzingen, Switzerland. He responded in particular to the accusations of Antisemitism cast at the Fraternity of Saint Pius X. "We evidently condemn every act of murder of the innocent. It is a crime that cries to heaven! Even more so when it is related to a people. We reject every accusation of Antisemitism. Completely and absolutely. We reject every form of approval of what happened under Hitler. This is something abominable. Christianity places Charity at a supreme level. Saint Paul, speaking of the Jews, proclaims, 'I wished myself to be an anathema [from Christ], for my brethren!" (Rom. 9, 3). The Jews are "our elder brothers" in the sense that we have something in common, that is, the old Covenant. It is true that the acknowledgment of the coming of the Messiah separates us. "It is very interesting to notice that the Church did not await for the Council to prescribe courses of action regarding the Jews. Since the 30s, even during the war, several texts of Rome provide a very just position: the abominations of the Hitlerist regime must be condemned! 'Spiritually, we all Semites', Pope Pius XI had said. It is a truth which comes from Sacred Scripture itself, 'we are sons of Abraham,' Saint Paul also affirms." [url="http://www.la-croix.com/documents/doc.jsp?docId=2363958&rubId=47602"]http://www.la-croix.com/documents/doc.jsp?...amp;rubId=47602[/url]
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1768789' date='Feb 1 2009, 06:33 PM']If you are, you don't have to be. Choosing obedience for me was the hardest and easiest thing in the world. I have an anti-authoritarian streak a mile wide, remember I grew up in the 60's . I think the Holy Spirit must have had a good chuckle at that point. But none of the other spiritual choices out there hold a candle to the Catholic Church, they all wilt under scrutiny. No one else has history, authority, and an unchanging truth for 2000 years. One day it came to me that it was a simple matter of saying I didn't have to understand all the theology, or the detailed history etc, and it wasn't a requirement. I didn't have to understand alll the details BEFORE I believed it. I just had to trust that the Holy Spirit was overseeing the whole deal. Once I decided that part the rest is easy. Once I made that decision and started following the teachings of the Church, the theolgy and history made more sense. Doing led to understanding. For if God is for us, who can be against?[/quote] I get what you're saying, it's just going to take time for me to reconcile conflicts of conscience with the Church in order to fully accept that it is guided by the Holy Spirit without having the doubts that I often have. I stilll go to Mass every Sunday, I still try-though I always need to try harder. Thanks for the input, though. -Katie
cmotherofpirl Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769216' date='Feb 2 2009, 12:40 AM']I get what you're saying, it's just going to take time for me to reconcile conflicts of conscience with the Church in order to fully accept that it is guided by the Holy Spirit without having the doubts that I often have. I stilll go to Mass every Sunday, I still try-though I always need to try harder. Thanks for the input, though. -Katie[/quote] I still have doubts on a regular basis, we almost all do. St. Augustine: "Doubt is but another element of faith."
qfnol31 Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Stupidity isn't an impediment to becoming Catholic...If it were, we'd have a pretty small Church. Just because Bishop Williamson isn't the brightest crayon in the box doesn't meant that he should be denied the Church. He isn't denying a part of the Faith, just history. Again, it may be stupid (and he's not very bright at times), but if you're going to deny him access to Holy Mother Church, it should be for a Catholic reason.
Vincent Vega Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='qfnol31' post='1769265' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:10 AM']Stupidity isn't an impediment to becoming Catholic...If it were, we'd have a pretty small Church.[/quote] Ouch!
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1769250' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:03 AM']I still have doubts on a regular basis, we almost all do. St. Augustine: "Doubt is but another element of faith."[/quote] I'll keep that in mind. I'm having a "James Joyce" moment, right now. I have them a lot! -Katie
qfnol31 Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1768767' date='Feb 1 2009, 05:21 PM']-religious "habits" that look like this: [img]http://www.dcwcp.org/images/council.jpg[/img] Mind you, the latter two aren't as severe as the first few, but they still embody the spirit of informality and personal liberty that the 2VC was never intended to grant.[/quote] Actually, I do know of a particular order that has had that same "habit" since the 1860's. I think that was before Vatican II.
Vincent Vega Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' post='1769270' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:13 AM']Actually, I do know of a particular order that has had that same "habit" since the 1860's. I think that was before Vatican II. [/quote] Yes, I wasn't insinuating that all orders changed their habits, or I guess uniforms might be a more accurate term, but I think you'd have been hard pressed to find sisters in outfits like that in 1955. And might I add that those pictured are Daughters of Charity - some of my very favourite sisters, and sisters that were very helpful in my conversion were DoCs, so I'm not trying to diminish their devotion to Our Lord or their work, but I think there's something to be said for the veil and habit. Edited February 2, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1769319' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:37 AM']Yes, I wasn't insinuating that all orders changed their habits, or I guess uniforms might be a more accurate term, but I think you'd have been hard pressed to find sisters in outfits like that in 1955. And might I add that those pictured are Daughters of Charity - some of my very favourite sisters, and sisters that were very helpful in my conversion were DoCs, so I'm not trying to diminish their devotion to Our Lord or their work, but I think there's something to be said for the veil and habit.[/quote] Eh, I don't know-I don't really see that what they're wearing is the crucial issue-I think it's what they're doing. -Katie
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