Vatican Demands Holocaust Denier Recant

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1772446' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:46 PM']Where is this witch hunt to end?[/quote]

This is one instance, I wouldn't be too worried about a witch hunt. As you pointed out, the Vatican [i]usually[/i] doesn't involve itself publically with individuals. -Katie

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1772450' date='Feb 4 2009, 07:48 PM']This is one instance, I wouldn't be too worried about a witch hunt. As you pointed out, the Vatican [i]usually[/i] doesn't involve itself publically with individuals. -Katie[/quote]
You're not concerned that the pope was a member of the Hitler Youth? I am concerned that you do not see this as a problem.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1772448' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:47 PM']When is this discussion going to end?[/quote]

Good question-probably never. But as a firmly entrenched Stalinist, I should be [i]planning [/i]genocides, not speaking out against people who minimize them. -Katoe

[Apotheoun]

Now, do you see what happens when society unleashes a witch hunt. Where will it end?

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1772453' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:49 PM']You're not concerned that the pope was a member of the Hitler Youth? I am concerned that you do not see this as a problem.[/quote]

I was concerned at first but I do realize that, at the time, it was pretty impossible to avoid. -Katie

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1772448' date='Feb 4 2009, 07:47 PM']When is this discussion going to end?[/quote]
It will end when Tink stops posting irrational comments.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1772458' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:51 PM']It will end when Tink stops posting irrational comments.

[/quote]

Ended. -Katie

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1772457' date='Feb 4 2009, 07:50 PM']I was concerned at first but I do realize that, at the time, it was pretty impossible to avoid. -Katie[/quote]
Neither you nor I can see into Joseph Ratzinger's mind, and so for all we know he was a supporter of Hitler. God only knows.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1772459' date='Feb 4 2009, 07:51 PM']Ended. -Katie[/quote]
Thank you for the conversation.

God grant you many happy years.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1772388' date='Feb 4 2009, 06:06 PM']That's one of the most absurd things I've ever read.

Besides, CCC 2464 states that "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving", and since stating that the sky is blue is not a falsehood, the first condition for it being a lie is not present.[/quote]

Although the sky is blue and I would not be lying to make a statement "The sky is blue", I would be FALSE to make the statement "I BELIEVE the sky is blue" if I did not truly believe it. The sky being blue is a matter of fact, my belief in the sky being blue is a subjective matter that is not necessitated(although [b]ought[/b] to be guided) by the actuality of the blueness inherent to the sky.



EDIT: Didn't finish reading the thread before I posted. See now that it was already covered. BTW: Obviously it can't be one of the most absurd things you ever read considering it is true...

Edited February 5, 2009 by Slappo

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1772685' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:33 AM']Although the sky is blue and I would not be lying to make a statement "The sky is blue", I would be FALSE to make the statement "I BELIEVE the sky is blue" if I did not truly believe it. The sky being blue is a matter of fact, my belief in the sky being blue is a subjective matter that is not necessitated(although [b]ought[/b] to be guided) by the actuality of the blueness inherent to the sky.



EDIT: Didn't finish reading the thread before I posted. See now that it was already covered. BTW: Obviously it can't be one of the most absurd things you ever read considering it is true...[/quote]

But the original belief is itself false (or at least severely mistaken).

This all is beginning to sound like a Monty Python skit gone out of control.

[Apotheoun]

As I pointed out before: the sky being "blue" is not a truth, but a subjective perception.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1772719' date='Feb 5 2009, 02:04 AM']But the original belief is itself false (or at least severely mistaken).

This all is beginning to sound like a Monty Python skit gone out of control.[/quote]
but when you say something contrary to what you believe to be true, you are LYING; even if that thing you believe to be true is false; if you do not know that it is false, it is a lie. it is a deception about what you believe.

in your understanding, if a person who believed the sky was brown wished to decieve someone else by telling them the sky was blue, they would not be lying even though they have the full intent to decieve and are misrepresenting their own understanding of what is true.

it's the most ridiculous understanding of lies and truths I've ever heard of; as if one could accidently tell the truth while intending to decieve and that would not be the sin of lying but one could not accidently tell a falsehood while not intending to deceive and that would be lying. it's proposterous and a complete twisting of the Catechism.

[Saint Therese]

This seems a tad off topic to me.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1771981' date='Feb 4 2009, 02:26 PM']This is the crux of the matter, IMHO. Whether Williamson believes in the Holocaust or wants to minimize the number killed is neither here nor there, from the perspective of whether his excommunication should have been lifted. *However,* insofar as his view on the Holocaust casts doubt on his intellectual acumen and judgment, Williams reinstatement as a bishop certainly raises questions as to his fitness to exercise a leadership position within the Church.[/quote]
Again, with respect to revoking Williamson's excommunication, his views on the Holocaust are neither here nor there.

*However," the Holocaust [i]happened within living memory[/i]. To deny that six million Jews were killed - not to mention six million other victims - or that they were gassed and their bodies cremated in an industrial setting, e.g. Auschwitz, is to be willfully ignorant, naive or deceptive, and is, quite frankly, unnecessarily stupid. His intellectual acumen and judgment in this matter must call into question his fitness to act as a bishop.