CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777453' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:51 PM']That wasn't the point. My point was that FOCA wasn't his top priority, that's why we aren't hearing anything about it.[/quote] Then, he lied. Pres. Obama stated it was the first thing he would do in office, meaning it would be a top priority. How dare we take the man on his word. That he made the earlier quote only shows his lack of integrity to his word, not that it was over hyped or blown out of proportion. Edited February 10, 2009 by CatholicCid
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777460' date='Feb 9 2009, 09:56 PM']Then, he lied. Pres. Obama stated it was the first thing he would do in office, meaning it would be a top priority. How dare we take the man on his word. That he made the earlier quote only shows his lack of integrity to his word, not that it was over hyped or blown out of proportion.[/quote] Welcome to the conversation. Yes, he "lied," in so much as every other politician does when they're trying to get elected. Oh well. There are only a few certain things: death, taxes and lying politicians.
Nihil Obstat Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777475' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:03 PM']Welcome to the conversation. Yes, he "lied," in so much as every other politician does when they're trying to get elected. Oh well. There are only a few certain things: death, taxes and lying politicians.[/quote] I dunno, I'm sorta a fan of my MP in a weird sort of way. He seems more honest than the rest. He'll come right out and say that he believes giving Nelson Mandela the Order of Canada is a mistake, and Mandela is a terrorist. I don't know if I believe him or not, because I don't know much about Nelson Mandela, but he came right out and said it. On more than one occasion.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1777480' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:04 PM']I dunno, I'm sorta a fan of my MP in a weird sort of way. He seems more honest than the rest. He'll come right out and say that he believes giving Nelson Mandela the Order of Canada is a mistake, and Mandela is a terrorist. I don't know if I believe him or not, because I don't know much about Nelson Mandela, but he came right out and said it. On more than one occasion.[/quote] Lol. Canada is weird.
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777475' date='Feb 10 2009, 12:03 AM']Welcome to the conversation. Yes, he "lied," in so much as every other politician does when they're trying to get elected. Oh well. There are only a few certain things: death, taxes and lying politicians.[/quote] I'm glad that we agree. Pres. Obama had said that signing FOCA would be a high priority of his. Which means, it was a high priority and a goal of his presidency. [quote]It never was high priority. Some around here made it high priority, or created the appearance that Obama's only goal for his presidency was to sign FOCA, but that's not the case.[/quote] So, it would be quite hard to "create an appearance" when he himself stated it was a goal for his presidency, giving it such priority that it would be the first act that he signed. Regardless that he ended up lying, he did make the statement and therefore, the outcry is understandable.
Nihil Obstat Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777483' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:06 PM']Lol. Canada is weird.[/quote] Yea..... We have MPs. ...and we don't vote for a Prime Minister!! What a foreign idea.
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I need to remind the board what you said. [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777129' date='Feb 9 2009, 06:50 PM']I guess you had some special access to him, because I don't recall him campaigning on anything related to FOCA. He talked about his views on abortion, but he didn't proclaim him full steam ahead mission of passing and signing FOCA.[/quote] Whether or not Obama was lying, he [b]did[/b] campaign for FOCA and he made it [b]clear[/b] that he had every intention of passing and signing the bill.
Nihil Obstat Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Fidei sounds like my middle brother when we prove him wrong outright.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777494' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:10 PM']I need to remind the board what you said. Whether or not Obama was lying, he [b]did[/b] campaign for FOCA and he made it [b]clear[/b] that he had every intention of passing and signing the bill.[/quote] I hardly think that telling PP that he'll sign a pro-abortion bill counts as "campaigning on it." I just didn't see it. Not one of his major, non special interest group speeches mentioned FOCA, or if he did mention it, was it more than a few seconds. To me, that doesn't count as "campaigning on it." It wasn't a major issue during the election.
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1777497' date='Feb 10 2009, 12:12 AM']Fidei sounds like my middle brother when we prove him wrong outright. [/quote] Does your middle brother also deny being wrong?
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I think "hearing what you want" really applies here. You're more apt to listen for abortion related things because that's your top issue, and I'm more likely to ignore it because it's a non-issue to me. Chances are I just missed when he talked about it (though I honestly didn't hear much about it) and you picked up on it because you were looking for it.
Nihil Obstat Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777501' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:15 PM']Does your middle brother also deny being wrong? [/quote] Yea. Then he tries to prove that that wasn't what he meant all along. Then to make thing worse, he still tries to prove everyone else wrong.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1777507' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:18 PM']Yea. Then he tries to prove that that wasn't what he meant all along. Then to make thing worse, he still tries to prove everyone else wrong. [/quote] Ah ha, you guys...! You're talking about me! Good golly gosh.
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Regardless of what we might wish to hear, he DID say it. He said it to a group while he was out garnering support for his campaign. Another term for this would be "campaigning." We heard it because it was and is a major issue. The bill is a very extreme one, and as citizens of these United States, we have a right to let our representatives know what we believe, where we stand on the issues, and how we wish to be represented. As Pres. Obama himself said that it would be the first thing he would do, opponents to the bill perked up to the comment. Why wouldn't they, as they are OPPONENTS to the bill. A candidate making a campaign promise that this bill would be his first priority would of course garner attention. [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777510' date='Feb 10 2009, 12:20 AM']Ah ha, you guys...! You're talking about me! Good golly gosh.[/quote] Sorry, I was talking about Nihil's middle brother Edited February 10, 2009 by CatholicCid
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777498' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:13 PM']I hardly think that telling PP that he'll sign a pro-abortion bill counts as "campaigning on it." I just didn't see it. Not one of his major, non special interest group speeches mentioned FOCA, or if he did mention it, was it more than a few seconds. To me, that doesn't count as "campaigning on it." It wasn't a major issue during the election.[/quote] What do you classify as "campaigning" then? [b] Pres. Barack Obama has been on record for quite some time saying he will sign the Freedom of Choice Act. Actually, he stated the first thing he would do in office is sign this act. [/b] [b]He told the conservative audience during Saddleback he wants to decrease the number of abortions.[/b] Source: [url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/chi-090203novak_briefs,0,7493342.story"]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...0,7493342.story[/url] We know [u]exactly[/u] what his policy is regarding abortion. [b]President Obama struck down a rule Friday that prohibits U.S. money from funding international family-planning clinics that promote abortion or provide counseling or referrals about abortion services.[/b] Source: [url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/"]http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/[/url]
Nihil Obstat Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777512' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:21 PM']Sorry, I was talking about Nihil's middle brother [/quote] Me too. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Although there is a neat little similarity here.......
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1777515' date='Feb 10 2009, 12:23 AM']Me too. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Although there is a neat little similarity here....... [/quote] Are you suggesting Fidei is your middle brother? They have genetic tests to prove such things
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777512' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:21 PM']Regardless of what we might wish to hear, he DID say it. He said it to a group while he was out garnering support for his campaign. Another term for this would be "campaigning." We heard it because it was and is a major issue. The bill is a very extreme one, and as citizens of these United States, we have a right to let our representatives know what where we stand on the issues and how we wish to be represented. As Pres. Obama himself said that it would be the first thing he would do, opponents to the bill perked up to the comment. Why wouldn't they, as they are OPPONENTS to the bill. A candidate making a campaign promise that this bill would be his first priority would of course garner attention. Sorry, I was talking about Nihil's middle brother [/quote] [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777513' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:21 PM']What do you classify as "campaigning" then? [b] Pres. Barack Obama has been on record for quite some time saying he will sign the Freedom of Choice Act. Actually, he stated the first thing he would do in office is sign this act. [/b] [b]He told the conservative audience during Saddleback he wants to decrease the number of abortions.[/b] Source: [url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/chi-090203novak_briefs,0,7493342.story"]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...0,7493342.story[/url] We know [u]exactly[/u] what his policy is regarding abortion. [b]President Obama struck down a rule Friday that prohibits U.S. money from funding international family-planning clinics that promote abortion or provide counseling or referrals about abortion services.[/b] Source: [url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/"]http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/[/url][/quote] The campaigning he did in regards to abortions and FOCA is not the same as campaigning to the general public. He made that comment to a group gathered at Planned Parenthood. Why wouldn't he mention FOCA? He was never shy about saying he would sign something like FOCA, but he only ever said it would be the first thing he would sign once, to PP. How does that constitute a major promise during campaigning?
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) I never said it was a "major" promise, but that it was a promise he made during campaigning. A promise that he himself said would be "the first thing" he signed as President. This would suggest that, at the moment he made that statement, it was a major issue to him, if it was something that he felt needed to be the FIRST thing he did. I'm sure there is video of him speaking if you wish us to dig it up so that you might hear him actually say it. Edited February 10, 2009 by CatholicCid
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777525' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:30 PM']I never said it was a "major" promise, but that it was a promise he made during campaigning. A promised that he himself said would be "the first thing" he signed as President. This would suggest that, at the moment he made that statement, it was a major issue to him, if it was something that he felt needed to be the FIRST thing he did. I'm sure there is video of him speaking if you wish us to dig it up so that you might hear him actually say it.[/quote] Yes, thanks for repeating that 100 times. I watched the video. However, saying it again and again doesn't mean jack. If it was something important, like other things he talked about, they would be major parts of most of his speeches. Talking about "the first thing" he'd sign being FOCA was mentioned ONCE in a speech to an abortion INTEREST GROUP. That's called phishing for votes and telling them whatever you think they want to hear. Imagine that, PP wanting to hear that he'd sign a bill "first thing" to unrestrict abortions. Who woulda' thunk?
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