HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777521' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:27 PM']The campaigning he did in regards to abortions and FOCA is not the same as campaigning to the general public. He made that comment to a group gathered at Planned Parenthood. Why wouldn't he mention FOCA? He was never shy about saying he would sign something like FOCA, but he only ever said it would be the first thing he would sign once, to PP. How does that constitute a major promise during campaigning?[/quote] Everyone knew where Obama stood regarding FOCA during the campaign. He never made his views on abortion a secret. Obama on abortion: [url="http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/Release101608.html"]http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/Release101608.html[/url]
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I'm sorry if I believe in the old, simple quality of holding a man to his word. Pres. Obama said during his campaign that he would sign FOCA as the first act of his presidency. As you saw in the video, he DID say it. Meaning, it was not unreasonable to believe him. Therefore, the outpouring of disagreement to his comment is more then understandable.
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777541' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:36 PM']I'm sorry if I believe in the old, simple quality of holding a man to his word. Pres. Obama said during his campaign that he would sign FOCA as the first act of his presidency. As you saw in the video, he DID say it. Meaning, it was not unreasonable to believe him. Therefore, the outpouring of disagreement to his comment is more then understandable.[/quote] The issue is not so much about Obama but about what FD said. FD stated that "I don't recall him [Obama] campaigning on anything related to FOCA" and "he didn't proclaim him full steam ahead mission of passing and signing FOCA." A handful of members have provided information which clearly counters these claims.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777535' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:34 PM']Everyone knew where Obama stood regarding FOCA during the campaign. He never made his views on abortion a secret. Obama on abortion: [url="http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/Release101608.html"]http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/Release101608.html[/url][/quote] We're not talking about his stance on abortion, we're talking about FOCA. That link mentions it once, and it's what we're already talking about, the speech to PP. [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777541' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:36 PM']I'm sorry if I believe in the old, simple quality of holding a man to his word. Pres. Obama said during his campaign that he would sign FOCA as the first act of his presidency. As you saw in the video, he DID say it. Meaning, it was not unreasonable to believe him. Therefore, the outpouring of disagreement to his comment is more then understandable.[/quote] Wow, too bad I didn't just try to discuss the idea of telling people what they want to hear about 30 times now. If you want to believe he is a liar, fine. You're opinion. What I'm arguing against is that his main goal was to become president just to sign FOCA because he is somehow a super-pro-abortion-lets-kill-lots-of-babies guy. He mentioned wanting to sign FOCA as his first act only once during his campaign, and it was to an audience of Planned Parenthood members. I don't think it takes much of a leap to figure out that a politician is likely to make issue specific promises to interest groups and not actually follow through with what he or she said.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777556' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:40 PM']The issue is not so much about Obama but about what FD said. FD stated that "I don't recall him [Obama] campaigning on anything related to FOCA" and "he didn't proclaim him full steam ahead mission of passing and signing FOCA." A handful of members have provided information which clearly counters these claims.[/quote] I stand by what I said. I never saw the Planned Parenthood speech orginially, though I knew about it and heard the soundbite. Other than that speech, I never heard him mention FOCA by name or ever mention that he wanted it to be the first act he wanted to sign as President. As far as I'm concerned, that means he didn't campaign on it.
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 What you said earlier is contradicting what you are saying now. Now: [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777560' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:41 PM'][b]He mentioned wanting to sign FOCA as his first act only once during his campaign[/b], and it was to an audience of Planned Parenthood members.[/quote] Before: [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777129' date='Feb 9 2009, 06:50 PM']because [b]I don't recall him campaigning on anything related to FOCA[/b]. He talked about his views on abortion, but [b]he didn't proclaim him full steam ahead mission of passing and signing FOCA[/b].[/quote]
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) I believe you just called him a liar. Also that you have refuted your own earlier objections with "He mentioned wanting to sign FOCA as his first act." Regardless of whether he was sincere or not, he made the statement. Any outpouring of disagreement to the statement is more then understandable. Fidei, to your comments: [quote]I watched the video.[/quote] and [quote]I never saw the Planned Parenthood speech orginially, though I knew about it and heard the soundbite.[/quote] I believe the FULL speech is on video online. I'd be willing to find it if you wish to hear the FULL video, not just the sound bite. Edited February 10, 2009 by CatholicCid
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777569' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:44 PM']What you said earlier is contradicting what you are saying now. Now: Before:[/quote] What I said earlier was a generalization, following what I said about what I consider to be actual campaigning. Saying it once doesn't consistute campaigning on it.
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777571' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:44 PM']I believe you just called him a liar. Also that you have refuted your own earlier objections with "He mentioned wanting to sign FOCA as his first act." Regardless of whether he was sincere or not, he made the statement. Any outpouring of disagreement to the statement is more then understandable. Fidei, to your comments: and I believe the FULL speech is on video online. I'd be willing to find it if you wish to hear the FULL video, not just the sound bite.[/quote] I'm not and never meant to deny that he said it. I am denying that it means what you're making it to mean, that he wants some kind of pro-abortion crusade. If that were the case, he really would have signed it first thing. He didn't and I think that in and of itself is sufficient proof to strike down your "he's a horrible pro-abortion machice" argument. He lied to Planned Parenthood to get their votes. Edited February 10, 2009 by fidei defensor
CatholicCid Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Alright, I would first request for you to quote where I am making him out to be a "horrible pro-abortion machine" or wants a "pro-abortion crusade". Feel free to dig into my past posting history as I don't recall such words. And it should be noted that I am making it out to be very simple. He made a statement. As he made said statement, it would be assumed that he meant said statement. Therefore, any backlash or outrage to said statement is understandable. It should not be considered as others "creating the appearance" that he was going to do something, as he himself said he was going to do it. Regardless of whether or not he was sincere when making this promise during his campaign is frivolous to this discussion. It has come out that (thankfully) he was in fact lying when he made the statement, but at the time, there was no reason to assume he was lying. Also, Fidei, will you want me to dig out the FULL video for you? He said some other interesting things as well. It was about ~23 minutes or so. Not too long (for a Chicago politician )
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1777613' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:57 PM']Alright, I would first request for you to quote where I am making him out to be a "horrible pro-abortion machine" or wants a "pro-abortion crusade". Feel free to dig into my past posting history as I don't recall such words. And it should be noted that I am making it out to be very simple. He made a statement. As he made said statement, it would be assumed that he meant said statement. Therefore, any backlash or outrage to said statement is understandable. It should not be considered as others "creating the appearance" that he was going to do something, as he himself said he was going to do it. Regardless of whether or not he was sincere when making this promise during his campaign is frivolous to this discussion. It has come out that (thankfully) he was in fact lying when he made the statement, but at the time, there was no reason to assume he was lying. Also, Fidei, will you want me to dig out the FULL video for you? He said some other interesting things as well. It was about ~23 minutes or so. Not too long (for a Chicago politician )[/quote] I've seen the full video since the election, thanks.
dominicansoul Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777129' date='Feb 9 2009, 06:50 PM']I guess you had some special access to him, because I don't recall him campaigning on anything related to FOCA. He talked about his views on abortion, but he didn't proclaim him full steam ahead mission of passing and signing FOCA. I think you've got an extreme case of hearing what you want to. And being that most everyone around here villifies him over everything because of his abortion views, it wouldn't surprise me if he never actually mentioned FOCA much. I never heard much about it, anyway. But I guess I was just too in love with my liberal media.[/quote] [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777155' date='Feb 9 2009, 07:07 PM'][b]The first thing I'd do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. - Obama[/b] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf0XIRZSTt8&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf0XIRZSTt8...feature=related[/url][/quote] i think you owe me an apology fidei!
Fidei Defensor Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1777864' date='Feb 10 2009, 09:14 AM']i think you owe me an apology fidei! [/quote] I already mentioned that my original comments were generalizations because I don't consider him telling PP that he'd sign it as campaigning on it. Sorry if you feel I was wrong.
dominicansoul Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 no apology? okay... he was campaigning---to planned parenthood, reassuring them, that they would get their money's worth having him as their candidate....and as their president...and as they helped him get elected (with money) he's helping them stay in business....(with tax-payers money)
T-Bone _ Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1777894' date='Feb 10 2009, 09:04 AM']I already mentioned that my original comments were generalizations because I don't consider him telling PP that he'd sign it as campaigning on it. Sorry if you feel I was wrong.[/quote] You were wrong. There is no "feel" about it. Grow up and admit it. Edited February 10, 2009 by T-Bone _
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1777914' date='Feb 10 2009, 11:45 AM']Hey Troll-- You were wrong. There is no "feel" about it. Grow up and admit it.[/quote] When was the last time you were wrong and you stubbornly refused to admit it? It happens. (I know when I am blatantly proved wrong it takes a miracle to get me to admit it.) Or maybe FD honestly thinks he is right. I know I was being a bit snide before with him so maybe I have no right to say this, but calling him a "troll" is uncalled for.
T-Bone _ Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1777919' date='Feb 10 2009, 09:52 AM']When was the last time you were wrong and you stubbornly refused to admit it? It happens. (I know when I am blatantly proved wrong it takes a miracle to get me to admit it.) Or maybe FD honestly thinks he is right. I know I was being a bit snide before with him so maybe I have no right to say this, but calling him a "troll" is uncalled for.[/quote] You're right. The "Troll" remark was a bit inappropriate.
HisChildForever Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1777922' date='Feb 10 2009, 11:57 AM']You're right. The "Troll" remark was a bit inappropriate.[/quote] See. This is the perfect example of how nice it is to admit a mistake!
Socrates Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Obama has not yet signed FOCA into law because Congress has yet to pass it. If the bill gets passed, and onto Obama's desk, I'm certain he'll sign it. The first thing Obama [i]did[/i] do upon becoming president is reverse the Mexico City Policy banning funding of overseas abortion - so I think it's safe to say that promoting abortion is indeed a priority for him.
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