Satan....does He Really "exist?"

[Bruce S]

Interesting, I'm TOTALLY sure of the real, physical existance of Satan, but a new poll, by the respected Barna group seems to indicate that most Americans don't agree....

[quote]Six out of ten adults also contend that Satan does not exist but is merely a “symbol of evil.” Only one-quarter of all adults (24%) strongly reject the idea that the Devil is only symbolic.[/quote]

[url="http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/PagePressRelease.asp?PressReleaseID=160&Reference=A"]Link to entire poll[/url]

So, other posters, let's dicuss Satan for a little while.

Edited March 23, 2004 by Bruce S

[mulls]

i used to be friends with him, but it turns out he didn't even like me and lied to me the whole time. now i have a new friend.

[thicke]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 23 2004, 07:30 AM'] i used to be friends with him, but it turns out he didn't even like me and lied to me the whole time. now i have a new friend. [/quote]
That's cool...well put. I am totally there with you. But lately he's been nagging me to come hang out with him again. I wish he would just leave me alone.

[XIX]

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

[M.SIGGA]

These stats are no surprise because 2 Timothy 4 says it all would be this way sooner or later:

[quote]3
For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, 2 will accumulate teachers
4
and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths. [/quote]

and Jude tells us how to deal with it:

[quote]18
"In (the) last time there will be scoffers who will live according to their own godless desires."
19
These are the ones who cause divisions; they live on the natural plane, devoid of the Spirit.
[b]20
But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the holy Spirit.
21
Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
22
On those who waver, have mercy;
23
save others by snatching them out of the fire; on others have mercy with fear, abhorring even the outer garment stained by the flesh. [/b][/quote]

The other stats which are all pretty sad, like good intentions being a ticket to heaven, Jesus committing sins , and an unbelievable 55% of people who feel NO call to evangelize are all related to the no Satan stat.

I don't know if this is the result of a false teaching or if Americans are just too lazy to believe that Satan is real, which would entitle them to live their Christianity, which is something our society rejects.

I think a lot of Americans are going to be in for a rude awakening when they die, and thanks for this post because it has given me even more incentive to preach to my friends this afternoon.

[hermit]

I agree totally XIX... I heard it said the other day, if God says, I am the Great I Am

satan would respond I am the great am not

If satan can convince us he does'nt exist, he has won the battle...No satan, no evil,
no evil, no sin, no sin, no need for Gods mercy and the deception is complete...

God Bless.............hermit

[hermit]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Mar 23 2004, 10:10 AM']

I don't know if this is the result of a false teaching or if Americans are just too lazy to believe that Satan is real, which would entitle them to live their Christianity, which is something our society rejects.

I think a lot of Americans are going to be in for a rude awakening when they die, and thanks for this post because it has given me even more incentive to preach to my friends this afternoon. [/quote]
One of my favorite ones that I hear so often today when people pray, Is they pray to the powers that be...

I read once somewhere that God gave satan power over the earth for 1000yrs to try and destroy the Church, it may have been in the diary of St. Faustina, but I think of that every time I here that term the powers that be...

I think we live in a feel good society that does'nt want to acknowledge the existance of satan and evil, and I agree this needs to be taught more...

God Bless...........hermit

[Lounge Daddy]

[font="Courier"]So what do you say to those who do not believe in Satan, or more often – do not believe in hell, because how could a loving God… blah blah I am sure you all have heard this line reason – how do you respond to those who do not believe in evil?

I do know that this is the biggest lie - that there is no hell... [/font]

[Bruce S]

There HAS to be a Hell.

I think [ and this is the Protestant coming out in me ] PURGATORY is HERE, the present, especially the terrible, horrid, overwhelming time I've live through these past two years.

Fire and cleansing, while alive.

Hell is where those who REJECT the purgatorial cleansings of life and remain in opposition to God and His will go, they CHOOSE it, they make a conciensious decison to ally with evil, embrace sin, and disregard the warnings ....

If there is no hell, there cannot be a heaven.

[Dave]

Actually, Bruce, you're correct, in a sense, that purgatory is the here and now. However, for whatever purgatorial sufferings we reject or don't get the chance to undergo in this life, then if we die in God's friendship, we have to undergo them for a time after death.

[hermit]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Mar 23 2004, 10:41 AM'] [font="Courier"]So what do you say to those who do not believe in Satan, or more often – do not believe in hell, because how could a loving God… blah blah I am sure you all have heard this line reason – how do you respond to those who do not believe in evil?

I do know that this is the biggest lie - that there is no hell... [/font] [/quote]
I would love to hear somebody answer this question, as I have a friend that believes exactly along these lines..

The best answer that I have been able to give him is, that God does not create the evil that enters our lives, we do this ourselves thru our own free will, the choice God gives us to do Good or Evil....

God does not condemn us to hell we condemn ourselves....

His responce will be. well what about the bad things that happen to us that we have no control over.....

My responce would be, These are sufferings that we unite with Christs suffering on the cross, either for our own sins or those in purgatory....

And as you can see this argument is going to be turned back around and go on...and on........and on

God Bless..............hermit

[Lounge Daddy]

[font="Courier"]
I want to be clear on one thing, y'all:
Did God create hell?
Feel free to elaborate.

Heeeeey, Hermit[/font] I have a similar friend
She has the opinion “how can a kind and loving God send people to spend eternity… etc?”
I have told my friend the same thing also - we have a choice.
She used an example “would you as a loving parent, no matter what they did wrong, punish them so severely? Wouldn’t a perfect God not allow His children to burn etc etc”
I tell her, as a good and loving parent I explain right and wrong to my children and explain the consequences of bad decisions. I cannot continue making these decisions FOR my children – but I can warn them that they may find themselves in a very bad situation of their own making through choices that they freely made.

Also she plans to see The Passion next time she goes to see a movie, and I plan to use the conversation that follows to ask her what, exactly, Jesus suffered and died to save us from… hehe

Edited March 24, 2004 by Lounge Daddy

[KennC]

Hi Bruce

Rather well put.

Peace of Christ, Ken

[CatholicCrusader]

Bruce S,
The Church has condemned the idea that the Earth is a time of Purgatory. It seems you are a in a group of non-Catholics, but just so you know that the Church rejects this claim. God bless.

[Raven]

[color=purple][b]I honestly don't believe thief’s a Satan, or a "devil" or anything of that nature. I don't believe that we need to create an icon to blame our faults on. It's in human nature to be deceiving and what not. Anything bad that we do is human nature. It's just an ability of more reserved people to balance that side and only show the good. I find no reason to blame fault, or evil on some intangible being. It's like he exists so a good Christian man (or woman) can point a finger and say "The devil made me do it."

I also don't believe in a second hell. Earth, this existence is hell, and if you want to get to heaven, you'd sure as hell better behave, or you'll end up here again. Why relinquish all the pain and suffering of different kinds we experience on this earth and send us to one specific kind in hell. It's a favor, not a punishment.

I believe you live, you die, and you live again if you didn't do it right.

Just my two bits. Not asking anyone to agree.[/b][/color]

[Good Friday]

[quote][b]Raven writes:[/b]
It's like he exists so a good Christian man (or woman) can point a finger and say "The devil made me do it."[/quote]
This was the only part of your post I wanted to address. For Catholics, at least, nothing could be further from the truth. Every time we go to Mass, we begin with a Penitential Rite that places the blame for our sins right where it belongs: in our laps. Often, we say this prayer:

"I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned [b]through my own fault[/b] [note: the Tridentine Mass states it as "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault"], in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord, our God." The emphasis is mine.

While the Catholic Church does teach that human beings can be influenced by Satan, she does not teach that Satan forces us to make any choices (except in cases of demonic possession, but even in those cases the victim has opened himself up to possession somehow, usually through occult means). Rather, she teaches that Satan can tempt us to a point, but not so much that he infringes upon our free will. The choice to sin is entirely ours. Nowhere else is this better illustrated than in Genesis 3. Satan does tempt Adam and Eve, but ultimately they make their own decision. So it is with all of us.

By the way, welcome back Raven.

[Raven]

[color=purple][b]Ah, Nathan, I'ven't heard from you in a while. I'm just saying those are my personal veiws. I don't beleive in satan. Whether or not "he"'s the tempter or the reasoning behind the "sin" itself, It's in human nature to do both on our own. Satan is a face to blame.

I see you've joined the Christian ranks again?[/b][/color]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

John Paul II says that to not believe in Satan, is to not believe in the Gospel.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I think you make the issue far too simple Raven. There are many factors in sin, psychological, emotion, intellectual, etc.. Ultimately sin is in the will and the fact of Satan and the demons does not take away culpability, we have free will. But there certainly are powers of darkness in the world and demonic activity.
I struggle with sin constantly and I can't remember the last time I just blamed it all on Satan. Granted there may be people that do this for the reasons you gave, there is far more to the existence of devils than this aspect. People do the same thing with psychology and blame all there sins on there rough childhood, or on other people, but this does not mean that those things are figments of the imagination. There is some truth to it nonetheless, but its not the whole story. Same thing with devils.

Has anyone read the "An Exorcist Tells His Story" books? I've heard they are pretty dope. I hope to read them someday.

God bless.

[IcePrincessKRS]

When I was a teenager we went to a talk by a priest who was an exorcist.... freaky stuff. I can't remember his name now.... My mom knows it, I'll have to ask her.