popestpiusx Posted March 26, 2004 Posted March 26, 2004 The thought of how bad Kerry is almost inclines me to vote for Bush. I don't know. I still think I'll write in Buchanan. Besides, he's a fellow traditionalist .
Colleen Posted March 26, 2004 Posted March 26, 2004 I'm voting for Bush. I'd like to point to this thread:[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=8449&hl=kerry"]here[/url]
XIX Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 A good rule of thumb is to vote for whoever Planned Parenthood is bashing at the current moment. Go Bush.
~runnergurl~ Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote name='XIX' date='Mar 26 2004, 06:27 PM'] A good rule of thumb is to vote for whoever Planned Parenthood is bashing at the current moment. Go Bush. [/quote] true true I'm becoming more passionate by the moment about pro-life issues. I sure can't vote but if I could I would certainly not vote for Kerry...
Iacobus Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 About W. or ANYONE who supported the war before we went in. COME OUT and say the war, as it stands with 95% (Kay Report) of the sites serached, was NOT just. It takes a brave person to say that and what is America but the home of the brave??? Pro-life is an issue. And a every important issue. But so is the sacredness of ALL life. We can lose sight of the poor, old, young, sick, dieing, etc. SSE, the tax cuts, don't do much to help the poor. The Mida-care law didn't do much to help the old. Esp senice MC will be broke in 2020 and SSA in 2040. We can't let all life become cheap for the gurantee of safe life for one stage, one group. ALL groups, races, stages need to be addressed.
Iacobus Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 the education bill comes to mind? I have parents for teachers. The teacher union in IL (you know the "terroist" group, I can't rember who called them that I think it was a GOP politican in IL) did not support it. The No Child Left behind act (I don't have the numbers in front of me but I can get them) grants good high standerds. SADDLY the act does not GIVE THE MONEY for the new teachers and books and other things to reach these levels.
Aloysius Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 politics makes me wanna take a page out of Martin Luther's book and throw my feces at those that oppose me.
Aloysius Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 another post of Aloysius's that is completely relevent to the topic and will progress the convo along: when this is at the top and i'm the last poster Open Mic says: "The President Aloysius"
ironmonk Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 26 2004, 10:42 PM'] About W. or ANYONE who supported the war before we went in. COME OUT and say the war, as it stands with 95% (Kay Report) of the sites serached, was NOT just. It takes a brave person to say that and what is America but the home of the brave??? Pro-life is an issue. And a every important issue. But so is the sacredness of ALL life. We can lose sight of the poor, old, young, sick, dieing, etc. SSE, the tax cuts, don't do much to help the poor. The Mida-care law didn't do much to help the old. Esp senice MC will be broke in 2020 and SSA in 2040. We can't let all life become cheap for the gurantee of safe life for one stage, one group. ALL groups, races, stages need to be addressed. [/quote] 1,300,000 > ~2000 It's as simple as math. Who needs the most help now? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The "Pro-life is all life" so I'm not voting for Bush is an illogical argument by people trying to rationalize their desire to sin by voting for anti-life cannidates... Here is a email that I sent to the "Catholic Education" director at my Parish.... [quote]I agree, right to life does mean much more than abortion, but weighing how many innocent lives die in the womb (1,300,000) every year compared to those who are executed, the babies have to come first. Some numbers to consider... 1.3 Million babies killed each year, abortion has been spoiling our society for the last thirty years. More babies have died because of abortion since 1973, than in all the wars in the last 300 years. The average number of executions in the US since 1976 is 29 per year (a total of 820 since 1976). 43,495,845 vs. 820.... I am against capital punishment, but looking at the numbers, which is the greater loss? It is very sad that anyone die at the hands of our government, but many of these people are not totally innocent, whereas all babies are totally innocent. Bush is more Catholic in faith than Kerry. Many Bishops have been publicly excommunicating some politicians that try to claim that they are Catholic when they support abortion. The Church teaches that it's a sin for a Catholic to vote for an abortion candidate when there is a pro-life candidate running against the abortionist. Ref: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SINTOVOT.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SINTOVOT.htm[/url] [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.htm#2270"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sec...t2art5.htm#2270[/url] [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2240"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2240[/url] [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2242"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2242[/url] [url="http://www.priestsforlife.org/"]http://www.priestsforlife.org/[/url] I believe that the lives of the innocent babies outweigh all other issues (i.e. econ, taxes, etc...). God Bless, Max[/quote] God Bless, ironmonk
ilovechrist Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote name='XIX' date='Mar 26 2004, 07:27 PM'] A good rule of thumb is to vote for whoever Planned Parenthood is bashing at the current moment. Go Bush. [/quote] good point, XIX!! --your avatar is awesome. STRONG BADIA.. now that would be a cool place to live!
Iacobus Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 I am not saying that life in the womb doesn't need help. It does, 4,100 abortions a day is OUTRAGEOUS. But what I am trying to stress is if we only focus on the one issue of unborn life than we are opening up the other areas of life to abuse. We as Catholics need to fight for all life not just one stage. The numbers don't matter 1 percious life = 10000000000 livies. ALL life needs help regradless of numbers. 1 person killed by the DP, one person euthinsied, one child aborted, one person straving to death. ONE PERSON TOO MANY. [quote]Death, whether of an unborn child or of a convicted criminal, does not bring us closer to a civilization of love, but rather feeds the mistaken and dangerous notion that killing is a solution to our problems.[/quote] Priestforlife, a site you marked, even noted that unnatural death of any kind pulls us away from God and creates even more problems. Priestforlife recongicze that we cannot just leave the other areas but need to fight for all with all of our might. If the poor die from malnutrtion but we ban abortion, where have we gotten? All that we have done was trade one bad evil for another bad evil.
Colleen Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 Let's just pray for all of them (candidates), that they may come to know the Truth. I think that we can all agree on.
FX2 Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote] the war, as it stands with 95% (Kay Report) of the sites serached, was NOT just. It takes a brave person to say that and what is America but the home of the brave??? [/quote] And killing innocent Iraqis who are under your rule with nerve gas and then throwing them into mass graves is JUST? Maybe invading Iraq was evil and unjust. But i believe just like this election, that invading was the lesser of two evils. On one hand you do nothing and you suspect wepons of mass destruction, and all the while a leader who wants the downfall of your country to happen keeps killing his own people. On the other hand you go to war, invade the country, and be called a coward for liberating and opressed country.
mom25angels Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 26 2004, 10:54 AM'] Amarkich is correct in his assesment of the death penalty. I think there may be some misunderstanding as to what the Church teaches about just war. Contrary to what lounge daddy said, the Pope could in fact openly support the war (unless you meant specifically This War and then it's up for debate). There is nothing about supporting a just war that contradicts Catholic teaching. The real question is "Was this war just". I'll not opine on that subject as it is not the topic of this thread. As far as voting: I served four years in the Marines (all under Clinton) and was quite happy when Bush was elected the first time. The Clinton's did tremendous harm to the military and to the country as a whole. I am still happy that Bush was elected but only because the alternative was more evil than I care to think about. In the upcoming election the alternative is even more evil, yet I don't really think Bush is all that great either. He is only marginally pro-life (and I am not talking about the war issue or capital punishment). MAny of his policies have been tailored to please the democrats (the education bill comes to mind). So I am faced witha dilema: Kerry the apostate or Bush the lukewarm? I think I will write in Buchanan. [/quote] Ya know, I like Buchanan too, however I probably wouldn't throw my vote away. A vote outside of the rep party for an independant is really just throwing your lot in with the dem(Just my opinion there, and unfortunetly in a two party system thats just the way it works).
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 Mom25, thats exactly what I tried saying the last time this debate came up. I firmly stand by it, its what I was "taught" from speaking with a moral theologian priest I know. Last election year... if you'd only heard him speak about it! I certainly wish Fr. Anthony were here on phatmass!
popestpiusx Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 Fr. Anthony has a point, but it is a relative point. What we must remember is that we don't elect the president. The electoral college does and they are not bound by the popular vote (as the last election shows). We are not bound to vote for the lesser of two evils. If I live in a solid republican state (which I do) then Bush will carry the state with or without my vote. Moreover, it is never throwing your vote away to vote for the best candidate rather than the least bad. It is a perfectly legitimate moral option. I know for a fact that Fr. Anthony would agree with that. And I too wish he was on phatmass (especially for the death penalty debate).
ironmonk Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 The rest of my comments in regard to the faithless kerry will be on the Debate board. Be Catholic - Vote Bush, ironmonk
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 27 2004, 12:40 AM'] Fr. Anthony has a point, but it is a relative point. What we must remember is that we don't elect the president. The electoral college does and they are not bound by the popular vote (as the last election shows). We are not bound to vote for the lesser of two evils. If I live in a solid republican state (which I do) then Bush will carry the state with or without my vote. Moreover, it is never throwing your vote away to vote for the best candidate rather than the least bad. It is a perfectly legitimate moral option. I know for a fact that Fr. Anthony would agree with that. And I too wish he was on phatmass (especially for the death penalty debate). [/quote] For the first part of your post Fr. Anthony WOULD agree, for the latter, if the state were close running then he would disagree. He is a college chaplain and he strongly encouraged all his students, especially those in states where the running was close, to vote for Bush--he had very detailed arguments on the moral obligation to do so, I wish I could remember all his reasons.
Good Friday Posted March 27, 2004 Posted March 27, 2004 [quote][b]Ironmonk writes:[/b] Be Catholic - Vote Bush[/quote] Be Catholic - Vote Methodist Does anyone else see the [i]irony[/i] in that? Or am I the only one?
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