Phatmass Bakers

[picchick]

Hi all,
So I have been baking bread pretty regularly for the past couple of months. My bread turns out really well. I have white bread and raisin bread down pat. My issue right now is when I stray away from the regular (white bread) then my bread ends up kinda crumbly. It tastes fine and is liked (well let's not count the sourdough bread I made last week but that is another story I'll share later). It isn't totally dry. It holds together really well. When I cut it it stays together. People don't get dry mouth while eating it. Again, the flavor is awesome. When I was trying to describe it to my dad he bought it this way, "It isn't flexible." When I take store bought bread and try to bend it, it will bend. If you try to do that to mine it will crack.

Any thoughts in how to remedy the situation?

Thanks
Meg

[Sojourner]

I take it the problem you're having is with whole wheat bread.

When you make it, do you only use whole wheat flour, or a mix of whole wheat and white?

[lost_in_this_world]

it depends what kind of flour you use...if you are trying to do a whole grain bread with whole grain flour it will be weaker because the grain cut the gluten strand that hold the bread together. if you are using typical ap flour it could be something else. what bread are you trying to make? maybe i can help if i know what ingredients you are using...i go to culinary school and have a lot of friends who are bakers lol.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1915590' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:47 AM']it depends what kind of flour you use...if you are trying to do a whole grain bread with whole grain flour it will be weaker because the grain cut the gluten strand that hold the bread together. if you are using typical ap flour it could be something else. what bread are you trying to make? maybe i can help if i know what ingredients you are using...i go to culinary school and have a lot of friends who are bakers lol.[/quote]
that was my thought too.

The recipe I use is a mix of wheat and white flour, so it is a bit more flexible.

If you knead it more, it helps bring out more gluten too, which could help.

[VoTeckam]

It could be caused by a couple things:

1) You may be allowing the dough to ferment too long.

2) You may be using too much flour

3) If you don't kneed the dough long enough enough glueten will not have produced and this sould cause a "brittle" bread.


Don't get discouraged... it took me 4 years to make prefect bread.

[picchick]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1915587' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:46 AM']I take it the problem you're having is with whole wheat bread.

When you make it, do you only use whole wheat flour, or a mix of whole wheat and white?[/quote]

Actually not at all. This recipe was for Golden Bread. It was a combo of yellow corn meal and white four.

Oh man, I'll tell you about my sourdough. It called for white and rye flour. I made it and it was turning out fine. It rose and everything. Last time I made sourdough bread it did not rise. Well anyway, I put it in the loaf pans and it rose out of the loaf pans so I stuck it on cookie sheets. I baked it and when I opened the oven I couldn't believe it. It grew even more. I had two huge five lbs loaves. My family couldn't even finish one. One of them we chucked outside for squirrels and stuff. The squirrels tried to eat it but couldn't. My mom tried making bread crumbs out of the first loaf but the blender couldn't handle it.

I don't kow what the issue is with this loaf though.


[quote name='lost_in_this_world' post='1915590' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:47 AM']it depends what kind of flour you use...if you are trying to do a whole grain bread with whole grain flour it will be weaker because the grain cut the gluten strand that hold the bread together. if you are using typical ap flour it could be something else. what bread are you trying to make? maybe i can help if i know what ingredients you are using...i go to culinary school and have a lot of friends who are bakers lol.[/quote]

I usually use all purpose white flour. I am making Colossal Golden Bread
All purpose white flour
sugar
salt
yeast
milk
water
butter
eggs
yellow cornmeal
butter

OH!!!!!

I forgot the butter. There is my problem maybe? The recipe says butter but doesn't tell me when to add it to the dough. I am guessing when I add the milk, water and shortening.

[LouisvilleFan]

What all's in the recipe? Edit: There it is. I would add that butter. Then I'd whip it... whip it good... just whip it...

Sorry.

And maybe trying a smidge more baking powder and/or whatever liquidish stuff is in there... and perhaps take 'er out the oven a bit earlier...

Not that I know anything about troubleshooting recipes... everything I cook turns out perfect every time.

Edited July 9, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Sojourner]

[quote name='picchick' post='1915602' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:55 AM']Actually not at all. This recipe was for Golden Bread. It was a combo of yellow corn meal and white four.

Oh man, I'll tell you about my sourdough. It called for white and rye flour. I made it and it was turning out fine. It rose and everything. Last time I made sourdough bread it did not rise. Well anyway, I put it in the loaf pans and it rose out of the loaf pans so I stuck it on cookie sheets. I baked it and when I opened the oven I couldn't believe it. It grew even more. I had two huge five lbs loaves. My family couldn't even finish one. One of them we chucked outside for squirrels and stuff. The squirrels tried to eat it but couldn't. My mom tried making bread crumbs out of the first loaf but the blender couldn't handle it.

I don't kow what the issue is with this loaf though.




I usually use all purpose white flour. I am making Colossal Golden Bread
All purpose white flour
sugar
salt
yeast
milk
water
butter
eggs
yellow cornmeal
butter

OH!!!!!

I forgot the butter. There is my problem maybe? The recipe says butter but doesn't tell me when to add it to the dough. I am guessing when I add the milk, water and shortening.[/quote]
My guess is that there is too much cornmeal in the recipe. Or, the bread is simply not meant to be as flexible. If you like the flavor, and it holds together well enough, then don't change it.

As far as the sourdough ... maybe make half a recipe, and don't let it rise so long before putting it in. Bread always rises a little more more in the oven.

[picchick]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1915609' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:00 PM']What all's in the recipe? Edit: There it is. I would add that butter. Then I'd whip it... whip it good... just whip it...

Sorry.

And maybe trying a smidge more baking powder and/or whatever liquidish stuff is in there... and perhaps take 'er out the oven a bit earlier...

Not that I know anything about troubleshooting recipes... everything I cook turns out perfect every time.[/quote]

...and I will listen to a cubs fan...right.
The problem with adding more liquidish stuff without knowing liquidish stuff to add. I'd screw it up.

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1915622' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:06 PM']My guess is that there is too much cornmeal in the recipe. Or, the bread is simply not meant to be as flexible. If you like the flavor, and it holds together well enough, then don't change it.

As far as the sourdough ... maybe make half a recipe, and don't let it rise so long before putting it in. Bread always rises a little more more in the oven.[/quote]

The butter was to brush on the top after it baked so the butter doesn't belong in the actual dough so cool.

Yeah, I don't think sourdough and I are friends anymore. I have tried 3 times to make it and each time it has come out disasterous. Not disasterous as buildings falling down but more like, it sits on the counter until we can use it as paper holders.

[Sojourner]

My favorite bread recipe book is the [url="http://www.amazon.com/Tassajara-Bread-Book-Edward-Brown/dp/157062089X"]Tassajara Bread Book.[/url] It's a skinny little book, but the recipes and the method are really good. I especially love the French bread recipe, and there is a great biscuit recipe in it too. It's not too expensive; it is a little new-agey but that doesn't affect the recipes.

[CatherineM]

My mom used to say, when in doubt add lard.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1915694' date='Jul 9 2009, 11:05 AM']My mom used to say, when in doubt add lard.[/quote]

I love your mother!

[VoTeckam]

My posts are invisible

[picchick]

[quote name='VoTeckam' post='1915701' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:11 PM']My posts are invisible [/quote]

Yeah! I didn't even see your posts!

I am always afraid to knead it too long. I am so scared of yeast. See, I didn't make bread for a long time. I made quick breads and cooked other things but never anything with yeast. I had too many mistakes where nothing happened. Now I am not killing it with the warm stuff being too hot/cold. I am now afraid that I will kill it by kneading it too much. Maybe in being afraid of too much I am not doing it enough.

How long should I knead it for usually?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='picchick' post='1915718' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:21 PM']Yeah! I didn't even see your posts!

I am always afraid to knead it too long. I am so scared of yeast. See, I didn't make bread for a long time. I made quick breads and cooked other things but never anything with yeast. I had too many mistakes where nothing happened. Now I am not killing it with the warm stuff being too hot/cold. I am now afraid that I will kill it by kneading it too much. Maybe in being afraid of too much I am not doing it enough.

How long should I knead it for usually?[/quote]
A good rule of thumb for hand-kneading is about 10 min./loaf, or until it reaches the consistency specified in the recipe.