Why Are Atheists So Stubborn?

[sacredhopes]

Hi all. New here.
A little about me. I'm won't lie and say I'm Catholic because I really don't fit the definition though I do no matter what believe in God and there's more to life than just "this". I'm going to be writing a report for a class about the absurdity of atheism. I have a few general ideas in mind but more input won't hurt.

Atheists are some of the oddest people I've met. They claim everything goes black when you die but it doesn't bother them if an unborn baby doesn't get a chance at life? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Also, if this is in the wrong section my apologies.

[Lilllabettt]

The thing about atheism is, it's irrational. Either the Universe is essentially rational and has an intelligent source (god) or it is essentially irrational and is a product of blind chance. I am always (usually privately) amused to see an atheist talk himself hoarse about the primacy of reason, completely unawares that his worldview posits the opposite.

[Hassan]

[quote name='sacredhopes' post='1917913' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:12 PM']Atheists are some of the oddest people I've met. They claim everything goes black when you die but it doesn't bother them if an unborn baby doesn't get a chance at life? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Also, if this is in the wrong section my apologies.[/quote]

I don't see how you connect point A to point B or how you assume that all atheists think abortion is acceptable. I believe Christopher Hitchens has suggested that he is uncomfortable with abortion.

Atheism is not a monolithic entity. Bertrand Russell, Nietzsche, Sartre, Schopenhauer et cetera. s your paper going to tackle all these divergent world views?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1917917' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:22 PM']The thing about atheism is, it's irrational.[/quote]

No. An atheistic world view can be.

[quote]Either the Universe is essentially rational and has an intelligent source (god)[/quote]


If the universe needed an intelligent agent in it's 'creation' that is still quite short of a demonstration of God.


[quote]or it is essentially irrational and is a product of blind chance.[/quote]

Improbability is not blind chance.


[quote]I am always (usually privately) amused to see an atheist talk himself hoarse about the primacy of reason, completely unawares that his worldview posits the opposite.[/quote]

If we add in your assumptions then yes.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Hassan

[MissyP89]

Atheists are stubborn for the same reasons we Christians are--firm belief in our convictions, and the desire for others to adopt them. (Though this is an oxymoron, considering they claim to 'believe' in nothing.)

[EAnn246]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1917932' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:56 PM']Atheists are stubborn for the same reasons we Christians are--firm belief in our convictions, and the desire for others to adopt them. (Though this is an oxymoron, considering they claim to 'believe' in nothing.)[/quote]

Agreed. Atheists claim to "not believe in anything," but they have a firm belief in now believing in anything. *scratches head*

Atheists, much like Christians, are steadfast in their beliefs (or nonbeliefs) and want others to see what they believe. We're stubborn too and want others to share in our beliefs.

[sacredhopes]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1917928' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:44 PM']I don't see how you connect point A to point B or how you assume that all atheists think abortion is acceptable.[/quote]

Not all, no. I'm sure there are some, just in my own personal experience I've never met an atheist that is pro life.

[Oliver]

Here is some views of what friend Richard Dawkin thinks about us religion folk.

- Religious belief is a virus that infects inferior genes
- Religion is not only a form of infantile regression - it's an especially pernicious kind of insanity
- Teaching religion to your children is form of child abuse

To think this and some more rather disturbing views about religion you have to pretty darn stubborn. However not all atheists think like this, (sadly i've met many who are like[url="http://rehorror.gameriot.com/forums/thread/religion-debate-s/1"]HERE[/url])

In the end I think what it comes down to is chance against intelligence. I can't seem to find this quote from a famous physicist but it was along the lines of that the universe was so precisely made that it would be like having to throw a dart from one side of it and hit the bullseye on the other side.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Oliver

[Lilllabettt]

[quote]No. An atheistic world view can be.[/quote]

All atheists have an atheistic worldview. Unless they are silly histrionics who have no worldview that they are aware of, and really only want to upset their traditional parents by announcing, loudly, at social functions, that they are atheists. I knew a person of this kind, who would inform the waitress of his atheism after he ordered his chicken fingers.

I'll give you that a lot of self-proclaimed "atheists" are this way. After all, atheists are required to convince themselves that the vast majority of people throughout time and space have been entirely wrong about the most essential question ever asked. This necessity attracts the sort of person who wishes to be acknowledged as "different."

But there are serious atheists out there, and they have consciously chosen a comprehensive worldview, and that worldview is atheistic. I would like to know what other kind of worldview an atheist could have.

[quote]If the universe needed an intelligent agent in it's 'creation' that is still quite short of a demonstration of God.[/quote]

Who cares? Not atheists. Atheists are not worried about whether God has been proven or not, but whether Atheism has been proven or not.

You don't become an Atheist because you fail to be convinced by theism. That's what an agnostic is.


[quote]Improbability is not blind chance.[/quote]

Once again: who cares. Atheists don't think it's improbable that the Universe has a reason for being, they believe, definitely, that it has no reason for being.


P.S. I think that if it were proven that "the universe needed an intelligent agent in its 'creation'" this would most certainly be the definitive proof for god. Not the Christian god, or a personal god, of course.

But an intelligent "mind" standing as the source of order and rationality permeating the Universe? That is god. It's a widely excepted idea. What else would you call it?

The philosophers used the word for reason ([i]logos[/i],) for the god that they worshiped in the place of traditional deities. it is no accident the Christians picked this name up for Jesus.

[Kitty]

Turn the question around. "Why are Catholics so stubborn?"

The answer for both questions is the same.

[philothea]

In my experience, there are a few different categories of ardent atheists.

The first kind was religious as a child, but a tragedy turned them against the idea of god. A beloved parent or pet died, or some other kind tragedy struck, and the idea that some omnipotent being might be overseeing a life which included such pain became incomprehensible. They're generally very angry at people who are religious, as if the potential existence of the divine is an affront to them.

Then there are the intellectuals, who think that anything which can't be proven by science is merely superstitious ignorance. They're usually very arrogant, and assume they're smarter than anyone religious.

Another kind -- though honestly they are fewer than I might expect -- are those who have adopted a lifestyle contrary to what the local religion teaches. If they believed otherwise they'd have to abandon the identity they've adopted. Usually they are not argumentative. Too much danger of being proven wrong, I think.

[TeresaBenedicta]

At least what I've found in my philosophical studies, there are two stumblings blocks with atheists: The problem of evil and of free-will.

In my own personal experience... well, I was a stubborn atheist for the same reason I am a stubborn Catholic-- I believed then, and believe now, that what I profess to believe is True (I wasn't one of those 'truth is relative' atheists). I attacked Christians because they were idiots, and also partly because they had an answer to the suffering to which I could only say "Life's a ____." I was envious of them. (God works in funny ways, though, and used that envy to draw me to Himself.)

[Kitty]

[quote name='philothea' post='1917997' date='Jul 12 2009, 03:37 PM']The first kind was religious as a child, but a tragedy turned them against the idea of god. A beloved parent or pet died, or some other kind tragedy struck, and the idea that some omnipotent being might be overseeing a life which included such pain became incomprehensible. They're generally very angry at people who are religious, as if the potential existence of the divine is an affront to them.[/quote]

This is me.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1918020' date='Jul 12 2009, 03:00 PM']This is me.[/quote]

That's the way my brother became after his son died.

[Jesus_lol]

"people who want to share their religious beliefs with you almost never want you to share your beliefs with them."

both sides preach and dont listen to each other past the point of gathering further evidence against the other sides views.

they are stubborn? and how open are you to other viewpoints?