Why Are Atheists So Stubborn?

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='philothea' post='1917997' date='Jul 12 2009, 03:37 PM']In my experience, there are a few different categories of ardent atheists.

The first kind was religious as a child, but a tragedy turned them against the idea of god. A beloved parent or pet died, or some other kind tragedy struck, and the idea that some omnipotent being might be overseeing a life which included such pain became incomprehensible. They're generally very angry at people who are religious, as if the potential existence of the divine is an affront to them.

Then there are the intellectuals, who think that anything which can't be proven by science is merely superstitious ignorance. They're usually very arrogant, and assume they're smarter than anyone religious.

Another kind -- though honestly they are fewer than I might expect -- are those who have adopted a lifestyle contrary to what the local religion teaches. If they believed otherwise they'd have to abandon the identity they've adopted. Usually they are not argumentative. Too much danger of being proven wrong, I think.[/quote]
I know someone with a bit of A and B. I don't think he lost anyone though.

[Oliver]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1918070' date='Jul 12 2009, 11:35 PM']both sides preach and dont listen to each other past the point of gathering further evidence against the other sides views.

they are stubborn? and how open are you to other viewpoints?[/quote]

Personally im very open however I do find the majority atheists to be extremely narrow minded, in the sense that anything outside of science is simply irrelevant to the argument. This involves important philosophy questions and arguments.

[Lounge Daddy]

One of my best friends is an atheist. He, and a few other atheists that I know are not the characteristic "anti-Christian" atheists at all. They are simply dealing with the problem of evil and free will, as mentioned above.

Until they work through these issues, they are claiming atheism. They also think agnosticism is a cheep "out" -- like being a fence straddler. hehe

By the way, the same could be said about Catholics. Why are Catholics so stubborn?

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='Oliver' post='1917981' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:54 PM']Here is some views of what friend Richard Dawkin thinks about us religion folk.

- Religious belief is a virus that infects inferior genes
- Religion is not only a form of infantile regression - it's an especially pernicious kind of insanity
- Teaching religion to your children is form of child abuse

To think this and some more rather disturbing views about religion you have to pretty darn stubborn. However not all atheists think like this, (sadly i've met many who are like[url="http://rehorror.gameriot.com/forums/thread/religion-debate-s/1"]HERE[/url])

In the end I think what it comes down to is chance against intelligence. I can't seem to find this quote from a famous physicist but it was along the lines of that the universe was so precisely made that it would be like having to throw a dart from one side of it and hit the bullseye on the other side.[/quote]

I went a Theology on tap talk where the speaker was a Catholic Psychologist who pointed out that most atheists are men, had abusive, neglectful, etc. fathers, and had a religious background that was patriarchal (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). In that case their atheism is more about rebellion than belief.

[Hassan]

[quote name='EAnn246' post='1917949' date='Jul 12 2009, 01:12 PM']Agreed. Atheists claim to "not believe in anything," but they have a firm belief in now believing in anything. *scratches head*[/quote]


I don't know what you mean by this or where you get that idea. Claiming to not believe in anything is incoherent.

[Fidei Defensor]

I'm no more stubborn than anyone here. I'm not anti-christian, despite what some may think. I'm open to ideas, but I will reject the ones that contradict what I know. But I'm not above accepting clearly reasonable things.

I used to be catholic but i found the logic used to defend it to be tiresome and just plain wrong in some cases. You'll say, well, it takes faith. But as you'll also say, faith is a gift, and I just didn't have it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1917984' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:00 PM']All atheists have an atheistic worldview.[/quote]

Yes, and some of the many possible "atheistic world views" on the fairly wide spectrum of atheism may conform to your description.

[quote]Unless they are silly histrionics who have no worldview that they are aware of, and really only want to upset their traditional parents by announcing, loudly, at social functions, that they are atheists. I knew a person of this kind, who would inform the waitress of his atheism after he ordered his chicken fingers.[/quote]

Yes, I know of the type.


[quote]I'll give you that a lot of self-proclaimed "atheists" are this way. After all, atheists are required to convince themselves that the vast majority of people throughout time and space have been entirely wrong about the most essential question ever asked. This necessity attracts the sort of person who wishes to be acknowledged as "different."[/quote]

I don't know what metric you are using for "entirely wrong" but you yourself necessarily believe that a substantial majority of all people, both now and even more so across most of human history, have been substantially wrong in terms of their metaphysical and theological world view.

I'd say we both agree that for much of human history the overwhelming majority of individuals have been profoundly wrong on issues such a women's right and their place in society, the morality of slavery or indentured servitude, toleration of dissenting ideas and heterodox religious view et cetera. I don't see where you get that that means we wish to be acknowledged as different. Most human view throughout most of history have been incorrect. That is simply an unfortunate fact. I'm sure I hold a substantial number of radically incorrect assumptions and beliefs. As history marches on we have developed different means of understanding reality and have collected more and previously unavailable volumes of data.

Right now I have an understanding of the universe based more or less on the general view presented by relativistic physics and non-euclidean geometries. Perhaps that view will endure forever but I find that highly improbable. Most likely in the centuries to come future generations, if they exist, will have a radically different understanding of the universe, as I have a fundamentally different understanding of the universe and reality than Descartes or Newton did.

It isn't a need to be different or arrogance, simply an admission of how very fallible human knowledge is.

[quote]But there are serious atheists out there, and they have consciously chosen a comprehensive worldview, and that worldview is atheistic. I would like to know what other kind of worldview an atheist could have.[/quote]

There are different sorts of atheistic world views. Dawkins and Nietzsche have fairly radically different worldviews.



[quote]Who cares? Not atheists. Atheists are not worried about whether God has been proven or not, but whether Atheism has been proven or not.[/quote]

Huh?

[quote]You don't become an Atheist because you fail to be convinced by theism. That's what an agnostic is.[/quote]
They are amorphous categories.





[quote]Once again: who cares. Atheists don't think it's improbable that the Universe has a reason for being, they believe, definitely, that it has no reason for being.[/quote]

I don't follow you.


[quote]P.S. I think that if it were proven that "the universe needed an intelligent agent in its 'creation'" this would most certainly be the definitive proof for god. Not the Christian god, or a personal god, of course.

But an intelligent "mind" standing as the source of order and rationality permeating the Universe? That is god. It's a widely excepted idea. What else would you call it?[/quote]


If all we knew was that it was an intelligent agent? Then I'd call it an intelligent agent.

[quote]The philosophers used the word for reason ([i]logos[/i],) for the god that they worshiped in the place of traditional deities. it is no accident the Christians picked this name up for Jesus.[/quote]

I don't suppose it is.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1918140' date='Jul 12 2009, 08:32 PM']...

I used to be catholic but i found the logic used to defend it to be tiresome and just plain wrong in some cases. .....[/quote]

...like....

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[EAnn246]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1918131' date='Jul 12 2009, 08:21 PM']I don't know what you mean by this or where you get that idea. Claiming to not believe in anything is incoherent.[/quote]

I'm just going with what a friend who happens to be an atheist told me. We've had lengthy discussions about it numerous times and he always reiterates "I don't believe in anything." But, I tell him, you believe that you don't believe in anything. It's a circular arguments and can probably be considered incoherent.

[Angel*Star]

[bonkers]

[quote name='sacredhopes' post='1917913' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:12 PM']Hi all. New here.
A little about me. I'm won't lie and say I'm Catholic because I really don't fit the definition though I do no matter what believe in God and there's more to life than just "this". I'm going to be writing a report for a class about the absurdity of atheism. I have a few general ideas in mind but more input won't hurt.

Atheists are some of the oddest people I've met. They claim everything goes black when you die but it doesn't bother them if an unborn baby doesn't get a chance at life? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Also, if this is in the wrong section my apologies.[/quote]

Wow, what a fantastic topic! Thank you for sharing. It's dififcult to pinpoint any single reason why people “become” atheists, as every single atheist “becomes” an atheist in his own unique way, as well as we all share different upbringings and experiences that shape our attitudes and beliefs. So I can only speak for myself, but if you look around here and the vast amounts of ignorance and absurdity perpetuated in this thread alone, then I think you have a small insight into the atheistic mindset.

The most important fact about atheists you will ever learn is that for most of us our atheism stems not from believing there is no god, rather a lack of belief in your god, and every other god that claims factual superiority yet lacks the evidence, reason and substance to substantiate it.

I unfortunately don't have any compelling arguments for the non-existence of god (other than the lack of evidence – but religious people reject this), but I will say if you're willing to talk about the absurdity of atheism, then perhaps in the spirit of consistency you should also talk about the absurdity of things like the virgin birth, resurrection, heaven and hell and angels and demons and everything Chrisitanity. These things are totally absurd, but also many people proclaim them as the turth, so if true then the truth is absurd, in which case atheism might be the truth then.

To answer your question atheists are more stubborn than god believers, so perhaps a better question for this topic might have been “why are people so stubborn?”. I also don't know about referring to atheists as "odd people" given the many odd things religious people believe.

[bonkers]

[quote name='sacredhopes' post='1917953' date='Jul 12 2009, 01:18 PM']Not all, no. I'm sure there are some, just in my own personal experience I've never met an atheist that is pro life.[/quote]


I suspect there are some "anti-abortion" atheists who don't want to be associated with the pro-life movement given its religious connections. I also suspect some atheists don't arrive at their opinion through research and thoughtful reflection rather in reaction to what they perceive as a holy war between Christians and secular society.

[bonkers]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1918229' date='Jul 12 2009, 09:21 PM']...like.... [/quote]

The part where god loves us so much he created hell to condemn ourselves in torture and misery for all eternity, just because he loves us soooo much. Gee, thanks father.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1918146' date='Jul 12 2009, 09:40 PM']I don't know what metric you are using for "entirely wrong" but you yourself necessarily believe that a substantial majority of all people, both now and even more so across most of human history, have been substantially wrong in terms of their metaphysical and theological world view.[/quote]

What I mean by "entirely" wrong is full stop wrong, about the most essential question. I don't mean metaphysics or theology, since the average person has never done much pondering of those questions anyway. I mean the question of the source of existence ... is there a god or not? This is the primeval question. From the first spark of rational thought, people have asked it. They have almost always answered it: yes.

As a theist, I can say that the Muslims and the Hindus and the devotees of the native African religions all have their metaphysical and theological systems based on something true.
Atheists have to say that all these people have built on a lie.

[Lilllabettt]

Wouldn't you say there's a serious difference between:
"I don't believe in god"

and

"I believe there is no god" ?


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Abortion is opposed to natural law, so yes there are atheists who are opposed to it. I have found them to be typically more capable of making a comprehensive argument against it than many religious people.