Why Are Atheists So Stubborn?

[Luthien]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1918600' date='Jul 13 2009, 07:01 AM']I suspect there are some "anti-abortion" atheists who don't want to be associated with the pro-life movement given its religious connections. I also suspect some atheists don't arrive at their opinion through research and thoughtful reflection rather in reaction to what they perceive as a holy war between Christians and secular society.[/quote]

Hm, sounds like me. But, I am not an atheist, figure that one out.

[quote name='bonkers' post='1918601' date='Jul 13 2009, 07:04 AM']The part where god loves us so much he created hell to condemn ourselves in torture and misery for all eternity, just because he loves us soooo much. Gee, thanks father.[/quote]

Hell is torture and misery because it is eternal seperation from God. People choose Hell, God does not send souls there because they didn't do everything He says. Just sayin'.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1918229' date='Jul 12 2009, 08:21 PM']...like....

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I don't keep a list. Like I said, I'm not anti-christian.

[Marie-Therese]

I was raised Southern Baptist. This might explain my near 15 years of being an atheist. LOL

This is an interesting statement you made...however, I need to bring your attention to something.


[quote name='bonkers' post='1918598' date='Jul 13 2009, 04:49 AM']The most important fact about atheists you will ever learn is that [i][b]for most of us our atheism stems not from believing there is no god[/b][/i], rather a lack of belief in your god, and every other god that claims factual superiority yet lacks the evidence, reason and substance to substantiate it.[/quote]

"A"= without.
"Theist"= believer in the existence of a god.
The definition of an atheist is someone who believes GOD DOES NOT EXIST, not someone who thinks all current acknowledged gods are dumb. You have, here, very clearly given defense to Lillabett's #2, the intellectual atheist. I know, because I was that person once. My main argument against God was that I thought Christians were stupid. I do not attempt to state that this is your position (i.e. the Christians are stupid thing), merely stating that you have drawn a clear connection between the intellectualized position and your personal "atheist" position, which is, in fact, not really atheist by definition.

If your above statement was correct, then atheists would have to concede that there is the possibility of the existence of god if that god were not currently worshiped, did not claim factual superiority, and had evidence, reason and substance to prove its existence. As Lillabett noted, these people are called agnostics, not atheists.

[quote]as well as we all share different upbringings and experiences that shape our attitudes and beliefs[/quote]

This is very true...and yet across all cultures people with absolutely no similarities outside their own humanity defer to the acknowledgment of a Higher Power. Paraphrasing St. Paul, God is proven in the existence of the created world.

[quote]I unfortunately don't have any compelling arguments for the non-existence of god[/quote]

Thank you. It is rare that a self-identified atheist makes this statement. I'm not being coy in my thanks, I'm being very serious. So many atheists base their arguments on this premise of intellectual honesty, so it is refreshing to see it exhibited.


[quote]absurdity of atheism[/quote]

I don't think atheism is absurd, as I was once one myself. I think it is misguided, but not absurd.

[quote]the absurdity of things like the virgin birth, resurrection, heaven and hell and angels and demons and everything Chrisitanity. These things are totally absurd, but also many people proclaim them as the turth, so if true then the truth is absurd, in which case atheism might be the truth then. [/quote]

This is a doozy. Um...you just gave an argument for the absurdity of Christian belief, then stated that "if true the truth is absurd," then stated that if atheism is absurd it might be the truth. Whew. Your qualifier here was that if the absurd Christian perspective WERE TRUE, then Truth is absurd. This would completely disqualify atheism as holding any truth, since the absurd (Christianity) was true.

You're right about one thing. Christian belief is kind of out there, if you want to view it from the pseudointellectual position. Virgins and angels and demons, oh my! Yet, over thousands of years, highly educated and completely sane people believe it enough to spend their lives devoted to these ideas. Believing in nothing is easy. Believing in something, especially an improbable something...now, that's something.

[tinytherese]

I remember in the movie, The Song of Bernadette there's a quote that says,

"For all those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For all of those who do not believe in God no explanation is possible."

I've also once read a quote that said Christianity has not been tried and found difficult but has been found difficult and left untried.

[Varg]

[quote name='sacredhopes' post='1917913' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:12 PM']Atheists are some of the oddest people I've met. They claim everything goes black when you die but it doesn't bother them if an unborn baby doesn't get a chance at life? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Also, if this is in the wrong section my apologies.[/quote]Well, atheists would say the same about theists. I once heard someone say

"These people believe that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches every moment of every person's life and has a list of ten things that he doesn't want you to do and if you do one of these things then he'll send you to a special place full of smoke and fire and torment and anguish and torture where you'll suffer and burn and cry and choke forever. And still they claim that is invisible man loves them"

[Ziggamafu]

Perhaps some atheists are stubborn or wish to escape the jurisdiction of moral law. Yet I think most of them are just very intelligent. The more intelligent you are, the more difficult it is to be receptive to God's grace. First, because intelligence tends to breed egotism, which is toxic to the total surrender demanded by God. Second, because intelligence tends to demand [i]empirical [/i]certainty (which faith, by definition, cannot offer). Third, because in surrendering to faith in God, one surrenders to God as the one who questions [i]us[/i]; for God is himself an infinite answer, and our own questions in the attempt to understand him would never end. In other words, atheists treat God as the object and themselves as the subject when reality is vice-versa.

[Arpy]

[quote name='Varg' post='1918788' date='Jul 13 2009, 10:09 AM']Well, atheists would say the same about theists. I once heard someone say

"These people believe that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches every moment of every person's life and has a list of ten things that he doesn't want you to do and if you do one of these things then he'll send you to a special place full of smoke and fire and torment and anguish and torture where you'll suffer and burn and cry and choke forever. And still they claim that is invisible man loves them"[/quote]
Oversimplifications. There are quite a lot more than ten things God doesn't want us doing, He's technically not a man, nor does he specifically live in the sky. You also seem to be passing up the idea of forgiveness in favor of focusing on eternal damnation. And before you say anything further about a loving God and the concept of hell seeming incompatible, which is more loving: To make us all little robots who perfectly do what God wants, or to let us have free will?

[tinytherese]

I remember seeing an encyclical or pastoral letter or something being sold at a Catholic bookstore called, "Faith and Reason." I'll have to read that some time.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Varg' post='1918788' date='Jul 13 2009, 01:09 PM']Well, atheists would say the same about theists. I once heard someone say[/quote]

I agree, and so I would say that there are some people who are totally incoherent, regardless of ideology.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='EAnn246' post='1918328' date='Jul 12 2009, 11:33 PM']I'm just going with what a friend who happens to be an atheist told me. We've had lengthy discussions about it numerous times and he always reiterates "I don't believe in anything." But, I tell him, you believe that you don't believe in anything. It's a circular arguments and can probably be considered incoherent.[/quote]

That's interesting. I wonder if that's being an agnostic rather than an atheist. Because having an "I don't believe in much of anything" type attitude seems a lot like an agnostic shrugging of the philosophical shoulders in a "who knows?" kinda way. What do you think?

[Varg]

[quote name='Arpy' post='1918868' date='Jul 13 2009, 01:49 PM']Oversimplifications. There are quite a lot more than ten things God doesn't want us doing, He's technically not a man, nor does he specifically live in the sky. You also seem to be passing up the idea of forgiveness in favor of focusing on eternal damnation. And before you say anything further about a loving God and the concept of hell seeming incompatible, which is more loving: To make us all little robots who perfectly do what God wants, or to let us have free will?[/quote]First of all, hombre, don't shoot the messenger. It wasn't me who said that. Second of all, god could've made us less violent and more understanding and empathetic [i]WITHOUT[/i] effecting our free will.

[tinytherese]

I have a friend that is what is called a non-theist. (I learned about that term in my world religions classes.) It's not that she doesn't believe that there isn't a god it's just that she is not interested in finding out what she should believe in.

[Kitty]

[quote name='Varg' post='1918788' date='Jul 13 2009, 12:09 PM']Well, atheists would say the same about theists. I once heard someone say

"These people believe that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches every moment of every person's life and has a list of ten things that he doesn't want you to do and if you do one of these things then he'll send you to a special place full of smoke and fire and torment and anguish and torture where you'll suffer and burn and cry and choke forever. And still they claim that is invisible man loves them"[/quote]

I love George Carlin.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1918924' date='Jul 13 2009, 04:17 PM']I have a friend that is what is called a non-theist. (I learned about that term in my world religions classes.) It's not that she doesn't believe that there isn't a god it's just that she is not interested in finding out what she should believe in.[/quote]

She better hope God is merciful to cop-outs.

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[Oliver]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1918924' date='Jul 13 2009, 10:17 PM']I have a friend that is what is called a non-theist. (I learned about that term in my world religions classes.) It's not that she doesn't believe that there isn't a god it's just that she is not interested in finding out what she should believe in.[/quote]

so in other words lazy