sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 In the Acts of the Apostles they spoke in tongues so they could be understood. Did they speak many languages? Did they speak as normal but the listeners understood in their native language? Or were they speaking the language of the angels? This is one of the key issues with the charismatic movement. And that of being "slain" in the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 There are probably several accounts of speaking or praying in tongues in Acts. On Pentecost they spoke in their native language, but were understood in the native languages of their audience. It was like a reverse of the curse of Babel and also a miracle signifying the universality of the Gospel -- that Christ came to save the whole world through his chosen race, Israel. Tongues (whether speaking or praying) and being slain in the Spirit are simply phenomenon that tend to occur among charismatics. Whether they are legitimate or not is open to debate. The fundamental question is whether "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is compatible with Catholic theology. This has been debated in several other threads. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=94058"]Praying Over Someone[/url] should keep ya busy for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 ive experienced being slain in the spirit and can tell you for me it was just falling back because i was pushed from the waist and knew there was someone behind me to catch me so i fell back. i tried closing my eyes cause everyone was staring at me but i was nervous so my eyes were fluttering. it seems like acting and or hysteria. i could maybe see how they interpret the meaning of tongues from the bible but falling to the ground is not scriptual at all. Jesus never knocked anyone down in the spirit neither did the apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Making a judgment about mystical experiences or the work of the Holy Spirit without the authority and tools of discernment is a dangerous practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 whos to say i havent discerned these "phenomenon"? For i have at least 5 months now. It seems fruitless. Im talking about tongues in public without an interpreter. Sorry i havent made that clear. But St. Paul clearly states that an interpreter is needed if its going to be public but if no interpreter than it should remain private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Glad you're interested in this topic! I'm sure there are many PMers who agree with you. Do a quick search on some of the terms, and you'll get some concurrences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) I am not a fan of the modern charismataic movement. Edited July 23, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Oh no not again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1929291' date='Jul 23 2009, 06:17 AM']Oh no not again. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1929286' date='Jul 23 2009, 07:59 AM']I am not a fan of the modern charismataic movement.[/quote] Its not a requirement that you are. And to answer the OP it can be any of the three, and its up to the church to discern the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I feel bad that you just admitted that you have no authority to discern the spiritual experiences of others and that you just admitted you have been 'discerning' for 5 months because it is likely others are going to intellectually crush you on this thread. I am not 'charismatic' and I went to Franciscan - so I have been surrounded by charismatics the better part of 5 years and I barely feel competent enough to say anything with a master's education in Christian spirituality. Make sure that you do not objectivize subjective experiences. The experiences of charismatics are tame compared to the spiritual experiences of the doctors of the Church such as Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross. They were ostracized by their contemporaries as well and those who did made just as fatal an error questioning the work of the Holy Spirit. It may be true that most of what we see in the charasmatic movement is so rooted in emotion it is not the miraculous intervention of the Spirit, I'm willing to say some of it is even dangerous. However I know charasmatics too that have incredible experiences where I do not doubt the Holy Spirit has worked in them and given them exceptionally rare gifts that they have used for the edification of God's people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' post='1929099' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:54 AM']ive experienced being slain in the spirit and can tell you for me it was just falling back because i was pushed from the waist and knew there was someone behind me to catch me so i fell back. i tried closing my eyes cause everyone was staring at me but i was nervous so my eyes were fluttering. it seems like acting and or hysteria. i could maybe see how they interpret the meaning of tongues from the bible but falling to the ground is not scriptual at all. Jesus never knocked anyone down in the spirit neither did the apostles.[/quote] I have not experienced being slain in the Spirit, the gift of tongues, or anything else specifically "charismatic." Yes, there are some theatrics and peer pressure involved when people in any group or movement become more emotional than rational. The nature of charismatic gifts seems to lend itself to that emotionalism. That said, it doesn't mean the gifts themselves are not legitimate or that there isn't a genuine charismatic movement coming from the Holy Spirit even in the midst of many abuses. This is what the Church is discerning. Regarding your experience, you obviously did [i]not[/i] experience being slain in the Spirit. If there is any such thing as a genuine "slaying" by the Holy Spirit, you did not experience it. You said yourself that you simply fell back into the person behind you. Where I come from, we call that falling into the person behind you. It's obvious you were involved with a very unhealthy group, whether they were Catholic or not. A good, healthy charismatic group [i]never[/i] pressures people into feeling like they should exhibit any outward signs or gifts, like falling, laughing, or tongues. Fact is, a healthy group of any type -- no matter who they are -- should never do anything to violate another person's free will. So shake the dust from your feet and leave them. [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1929286' date='Jul 23 2009, 07:59 AM']I am not a fan of the modern charismataic movement.[/quote] I am not a fan of the modern traditionalist movement. Edited July 23, 2009 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1929342' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:46 AM']I am not a fan of the modern traditionalist movement.[/quote] Whether you are or are not, I am just glad that the Pope is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relientfoot08 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I have always heard about people speaking in tongues and convulsing during adoration in Stubenville, but never have seen it. I don't really understand it. What exactly happens? Do the people know they are doing it? Is it the Holy Spirit speaking through them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 "In the earliest times, 'the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed; and they spake with tongues,' which they had not learned, 'as the Spirit gave them utterance.' These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to shew that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away." ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170206.htm"]St. Augustine of Hippo, [i]Homily 6 on the First Epistle of John[/i], 10[/url]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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