Does Prayer Actually Work?

[lost_in_this_world]

sometimes i think prayer doesn't work so i dont bother....but then i see a difference in when i do pray. not all my prayers are answered when i want them to be and i think that is the most frustrating thing ever! if i get what i want great if i dont then it stinks but at least tell me now lol anyway i think prayer works but i have my days of doubting that it does.

[Fidei Defensor]

I think that prayer is in the realm of the unprovable. Can't prove it works, can't prove it doesn't.

It's best to let people do what they think they should. It can't hurt. Unless they do something like withhold medical treatment and rely on prayer alone. Then it hurts.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1948359' date='Aug 13 2009, 10:22 PM']Inspired by Hassan's thread in the Lame board, I thought it could be a Lame-less (?) topic here.

People who pray/are prayed for by someone else are just as likely to die in an accident than people who do not pray or who are not prayed for by someone. Therefore, prayer doesn't really do anything. It is just a way to lift people's spirits when there really is no hope, and it's a way for people to feel like they are "helping" the person out.

What's the purpose of prayer? Does someone actually hear prayers? If they do, do they care? Does prayer work?[/quote]

The purpose of prayer is not to "get" things. The purpose of prayer is to have a relationship. Say you lived far away from your mother. If you call her once a week to talk, would you say the phone calls "didn't work" if after the call she doesn't send you money or a care package or a big juicy apple pie that you asked for? No! Or hopefully not, if one doesn't treat one's relationships as revenue streams.

I'm not sure what people expect. On the day of baptism is God supposed to wrap the new baby Christian in a special rubber suit that will prevent car accidents and falls? Is the Holy Spirit supposed to be like a body guard, who sends two huge angels to beat people up if they try to assault me or rape me? Or no - maybe when I pray, the saints should come down from Heaven and inject me with a special serum that will prevent my blood streams carrying infection and my cells from mutating or dying (which happens eventually with all organisms). Because after all I asked! Really, really hard! And if He doesn't do what I expect then He must not exist! After all, I prayed, so why should I suffer like the heathens do... Where's my miracle...

Regina Spektor just came out with a new album and this thread reminds me in some ways of the lyrics from "Laughing With"

[quote]God can be funny
When told he'll give you money if you just pray the right way
And when presented like a genie
Who does magic like Houdini
Or grants wishes like Jiminy Cricket and Santa Claus

God can be so hilarious
Ha ha
Ha ha[/quote]

I have known people who lost their faith in God because x didn't happen. And sometimes x was something really important, like a new job, or saving the life of a child, or freedom from an abusive relationship. The problem for these people is not that they don't believe in God, the problem is that they WANT to believe in magic.

[tinytherese]

If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?

[thessalonian]

Prayer ALWAYS has positive effects when done in sincerity. Many times however he cures are spiritual and this medicine cannot measure. But one thing that people miss is that "miracles" don't always seem miraculous to us. Prayers bring about medical breakthroughs in the past that help people to be cured or to live better lives. But I have had prayers answered directly. One case was when my wife and I married and we wanted the three boys from her previous marriage baptized but they needed their anti-catholic dad's permission. No way. Well I prayed the rosary for him daily for about 4 months. Two of those days I did not pray for him and he called her up and railed about the CC on those days but not on the others when I did pray for him. When time came to tell him about the baptisms he rolled over like a lamb.

When I was a baby my family needed furniture really bad. My mother prayed to St. Raymond and on the feast of St. Raymond my brother Raymond stepped on something in the swimming hole in the river that went by our house. It was a box of silverware that he still has today. Very nice stuff. Turns out there was an ox cart trail that went over that spot in the river back in the early 1900's. Now this illustrates my point above a bit. Was it miraculous? In a sense it was all natural occurances. But God brought about the supernatural from it.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1948828' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:01 PM']If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?[/quote]
Because I don't want to.

Besides, I'd rather beg my tree for gifts and treasures. You can't prove he won't give them to me.

Edited August 14, 2009 by fidei defensor

[Lil Red]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948837' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:16 PM']Because I don't want to.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
at least you're honest.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948837' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:16 PM']Besides, I'd rather beg my tree for gifts and treasures. You can't prove he won't give them to me.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
do you think that everyone that prays is asking for gifts and treasures?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1948843' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:26 PM']+J.M.J.+
do you think that everyone that prays is asking for gifts and treasures?[/quote]
No. I believe that most people who pray are praying for legitimate and honest causes.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948846' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:31 PM']No. I believe that most people who pray are praying for legitimate and honest causes.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
can i ask why you would phrase it like that then?

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1948597' date='Aug 14 2009, 02:17 AM']And what about murderers who kill children and adults alike and get away with it, leaving families in anguish? How is "the greater good" leaving people in misery and pain?[/quote]

God can bring good out of even the worst of situations. Perhaps someone in the family or someone who heard about what happened could be inspired to become a police officer, private investigator, judge, or attorney that would make a great impact in the world and maybe even finally find the murderers after all of those years. Or perhaps the murderers after commiting such a grave offense...hitting rock bottom would finally realize how horribly wrong it was what they did and look back on their lives seeing how bad they had truly become and eventually repent of what they did and back to God or turn to God for the first time.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1948847' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:36 PM']+J.M.J.+
can i ask why you would phrase it like that then?[/quote]
Because people who pray to trees probably don't pray for health or happiness.

[peach_cube]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948858' date='Aug 14 2009, 03:52 PM']Because people who pray to trees probably don't pray for health or happiness.[/quote]

Have you every read the children's book "The Giving Tree." *Spoiler Alert*

















Turns out it really smells of elderberries to be the tree.

[peach_cube]

The thing is no one has difficulty praying to God when things are really going bad. If He doesn't answer then it's all His fault for it happening. If He does answer, then great you got what you wanted. Either way you have a scapegoat or a savior. In my experience (myself included) we hold on to our grudges much more than heroes. The saving is quickly explained away and forgotten, while the inaction can live on in our minds for a very long time.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948837' date='Aug 14 2009, 01:16 PM']Because I don't want to.

Besides, I'd rather beg my tree for gifts and treasures. You can't prove he won't give them to me.[/quote]

Funny you should mock prayer, and maybe even those who pray, after recently asking us to pray for you.

I think you weren't so bitter when you where a Christian.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1949057' date='Aug 14 2009, 05:35 PM']Funny you should mock prayer, and maybe even those who pray, after recently asking us to pray for you.

I think you weren't so bitter when you where a Christian.[/quote]
I wasn't mocking people who pray. If you'd get the off your high horse and read EVERYTHING I say, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on anymore.

I made a JOKE about how I feel about the reasoning of "If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?" If you take offense, too bad for you.

[QuoteMan]

Let's go off topic for a minute. Prove to me that Plato ever existed.

[QuoteMan]

You can't. Because everything that you try to tell me, I can relpy "I don't belive you", or "That's a conspiricy". My point is, you can never prove things to a conspirorist, they can always come up with a way to debunk your proof.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1949066' date='Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM']I wasn't mocking people who pray. If you'd get the off your high horse and read EVERYTHING I say, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on anymore.

I made a JOKE about how I feel about the reasoning of "If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?" If you take offense, too bad for you.[/quote]

See what I mean about bitter.... sorry that I misunderstood your joke as mocking but you have had a history for some time as well having not so nice things to say that look like mocking.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1949119' date='Aug 14 2009, 06:26 PM']See what I mean about bitter.... sorry that I misunderstood your joke as mocking but you have had a history for some time as well having not so nice things to say that look like mocking.[/quote]
Yes, I'm bitter. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to attack my character and bring in personal issues. Yes, I asked for prayers. Thanks for being the bigger person and using that against me. I'm glad my health can win you points in a debate.