Does Prayer Actually Work?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1949165' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:20 PM']Yes, I'm bitter. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to attack my character and bring in personal issues. Yes, I asked for prayers. Thanks for being the bigger person and using that against me. I'm glad my health can win you points in a debate.[/quote]

Again, I was confused because it always seems your bitter, often mock others, and make jokes that are often offensive. I am sorry for that misunderstanding, I wish I had not made that mistake but I did. I can only explain why the mistake was made and apologize. Which is what I have done.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1948597' date='Aug 14 2009, 02:17 AM']What about people who die needlessly, like children, who have supposedly never sinned?

The truth is, no one can really say if prayer does anything because we don't know if there is a heaven or hell, and we don't know if we'll be sitting up there going "oh, I get why that prayer wasn't answered."

And what about murderers who kill children and adults alike and get away with it, leaving families in anguish? How is "the greater good" leaving people in misery and pain?

Sorry, this is just something that I have not gotten over (and never will) and I'm very bitter about it. I started doubting God's existance 4 years ago and it's gone downhill ever since.[/quote]

People don't needlesly die. They die for a reason. Just because you are unable to see it, does not mean it didn't happen for a reason. There are many things we don't understand in this world. To just assume since you don't understand it means its needless is very short sighted.


Get away with it? They can not get away from God's judgement. In the end, they will recieve the punishment they deserve.

[zunshynn]

If you think of prayer as simply asking for whatever you want and believe, for some reason, that you are therefore automatically entitled to get what you asked for, when you asked for it, and the way you wanted it, then yeah, prayer doesn't necessarily work.

I think of prayer as being the way that you communicate with someone that I love, and that I believe loves me... loves me so much that he sometimes refuses to give me what I'm sure I need because in fact, he knows there is something better for me. And in that sense, yes, prayer always works... because it paves a way for trust and love in that relationship to grow.

Rape is a terrible crime... I could not begin to explain why God permits that to happen to some people. But I know, for my own life, even horrendous experiences that he has allowed me to go through, have allowed me to grow, to become stronger, in ways I would not have. Some of those things I'm sure were/are unfair if you were to look at it simply equity. But God doesn't necessarily make things equitable. He gives us what we need. And sometimes by permitting someone to sin against us, he finds ways to give us what we need. Some of them I can see now, looking back, how that was so. The ones that I still don't understand, I choose to trust that there was, nonetheless, a reason.

[QuoteMan]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1949227' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:20 PM']People don't needlesly die. They die for a reason. Just because you are unable to see it, does not mean it didn't happen for a reason. There are many things we don't understand in this world. To just assume since you don't understand it means its needless is very short sighted.


Get away with it? They can not get away from God's judgement. In the end, they will recieve the punishment they deserve.[/quote]

I agree. God has his reasons for everything.

[CatherineM]

Some things are just too big for us to understand.

Asking for prayers for many is the same as asking for someone to wish you luck.

[Kitty]

I still can't wrap my head around the claim that prayer works or does anything. Based on my own observations, bad and good stuff will happen regardless of whether you pray or not. It doesn't do anything.

Now, using prayer as a means of communicating with God (if God is real) I can see a little more. But asking for things, no.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1949481' date='Aug 15 2009, 04:55 AM']I still can't wrap my head around the claim that prayer works or does anything. Based on my own observations, bad and good stuff will happen regardless of whether you pray or not. It doesn't do anything.

Now, using prayer as a means of communicating with God (if God is real) I can see a little more. But asking for things, no.[/quote]


well there in lies the problem. we should stop asking God for things that we want in prayer and instead ask that God's will be done. That God show us the path in life he wants us to take, no matter how hard, so that we may clearly see the path and follow it. We should ask God to lead us to rightousness. That is all we really need to ask for in prayer. God knows what we really need, where as we only think we know what we need. So we should just ask for his guiadnace to what we really need, not what we really want.

[Guest Perpetualove]

Yes, one hundred percent. It works.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Kitty' date='15 August 2009 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1250326514' post='1949481']
I still can't wrap my head around the claim that prayer works or does anything. Based on my own observations, bad and good stuff will happen regardless of whether you pray or not. It doesn't do anything.

Now, using prayer as a means of communicating with God (if God is real) I can see a little more. But asking for things, no.
[/quote]

Pardon the pun, but a handy metaphor might help: if you were using the handle of a screwdriver to hammer a nail, would you claim that the screwdriver doesn't work? But if you use a screwdriver to tighten a screw and a hammer to fix a nail, you'd find that the tools work just fine. Likewise, judging prayer by the tangible results is missing the purpose of prayer: we pray first to worship and praise God and His works ("Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name"), believing that if God is God, and He is perfect in justice and mercy, that whatever God wills is always good and best for us ("Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"). Second, we pray for our needs ("Give us this day our daily bread") and for peace with our neighbor ("Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"), finally we express confidence in God's guidance and look forward to eternal life and happiness with God after death from this world ("And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil").

There's nothing in there about being cured from cancer, bailed out of debt, a car, or a house, or whatever else seemingly good thing we might think we need. That part about "daily bread" covers everything: we have responsibilities, but in the midst of our work we give anxieties to God and trust Him. Then we're free to be joyful, especially in the midst of hardship.

Therefore, judge prayer by how it helps you to praise and worship God, give thanks, ask forgiveness, and grow in humility and joy. When you pray with faith, it works.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='18 August 2009 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1250608128' post='1951862']
Pardon the pun, but a handy metaphor might help: if you were using the handle of a screwdriver to hammer a nail, would you claim that the screwdriver doesn't work? But if you use a screwdriver to tighten a screw and a hammer to fix a nail, you'd find that the tools work just fine. Likewise, judging prayer by the tangible results is missing the purpose of prayer: we pray first to worship and praise God and His works ("Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name"), believing that if God is God, and He is perfect in justice and mercy, that whatever God wills is always good and best for us ("Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"). Second, we pray for our needs ("Give us this day our daily bread") and for peace with our neighbor ("Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"), finally we express confidence in God's guidance and look forward to eternal life and happiness with God after death from this world ("And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil").

There's nothing in there about being cured from cancer, bailed out of debt, a car, or a house, or whatever else seemingly good thing we might think we need. That part about "daily bread" covers everything: we have responsibilities, but in the midst of our work we give anxieties to God and trust Him. Then we're free to be joyful, especially in the midst of hardship.

Therefore, judge prayer by how it helps you to praise and worship God, give thanks, ask forgiveness, and grow in humility and joy. When you pray with faith, it works.
[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
this is really lovely. thank you.

[KCMayrie]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='13 August 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1250214804' post='1948367']
I've always have had my prayers answered. I am happy when the answer is yes, and accept when the answer is no.

Many times people pray for things that are simply not the will of God. We must learn to accept that we do not always get what we pray.
[/quote]


Beautiful thoughts...wish more people were as understanding...many just become frustrated when God says "no."

[KCMayrie]

[quote name='Kitty' date='15 August 2009 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1250326514' post='1949481']
I still can't wrap my head around the claim that prayer works or does anything. Based on my own observations, bad and good stuff will happen regardless of whether you pray or not. It doesn't do anything.

Now, using prayer as a means of communicating with God (if God is real) I can see a little more. But asking for things, no.
[/quote]


This confuses me...I guess I'm not as sophisticated as the other members...prayer is a means of communication between God and us on Earth. We can ask, cry, beg, plead, but in the end must come to realise it's HIS decision, not ours.

[EAnn246]

Prayer isn't always about getting the answer that we want at that moment. God's with us and answering our prayers in ways that He knows we need. We just don't always realize that at the time.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='KCMayrie' date='13 September 2009 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1252880239' post='1965899']
This confuses me...I guess I'm not as sophisticated as the other members...prayer is a means of communication between God and us on Earth. We can ask, cry, beg, plead, but in the end must come to realise it's HIS decision, not ours.
[/quote]
I agree. It is like any other relationship in that sense.

[Mark of the Cross]

The apostles questioned Jesus on why they were not able to heal a certain person. He replied "this one requires prayer" Yes, I would say that prayers actually work, just not in ways that we might desire.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Kitty' date='13 August 2009 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1250212949' post='1948359']
Inspired by Hassan's thread in the Lame board, I thought it could be a Lame-less (?) topic here.

People who pray/are prayed for by someone else are just as likely to die in an accident than people who do not pray or who are not prayed for by someone. Therefore, prayer doesn't really do anything. It is just a way to lift people's spirits when there really is no hope, and it's a way for people to feel like they are "helping" the person out.

What's the purpose of prayer? Does someone actually hear prayers? If they do, do they care? Does prayer work?
[/quote]

Kitty if you really want an answer to your question, here is what I propose. Take the next 14 days and pray this prayer "Dear Lord, help me become holy" and make it a sincere request. Will you be holy after 14 days? I don't know but I believe you will say the prayer on the 15th day.

[Hassan]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='14 September 2009 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1252938515' post='1966200']
Kitty if you really want an answer to your question, here is what I propose. Take the next 14 days and pray this prayer "Dear Lord, help me become holy" and make it a sincere request. Will you be holy after 14 days? I don't know but I believe you will say the prayer on the 15th day.
[/quote]



What would that demonstrate besides that repetition breeds habit?

I still sometimes have to stop myself from automatically crossing myself when I pass the cemetery outside my dorm. Or when I walked in the Pita Pit some Newman center kids were saying grace at the table, I came in as they were crossing themselves and did likewise without thought.

You give a vague mandate, why not something substantive? Why not something that will give a loud and clear answer? I think it's because you all deep down know that if your God is put to the test he probably will not answer. I mean surely one of you all has the requisite mustard seed worth of faith that Christ promised would enable you to move mountains, why not pray with all piety and sincerity that a mountain move? I know Christ said “put not the Lord your God to the test” but he also said “knock and the door shall be opened”. You can chalk it up to "God answers every prayer, but sometimes the answer is no" I suppose, but after enough prayers go unanswered the silence really does become deafening.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hassan' date='14 September 2009 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1252950763' post='1966316']
What would that demonstrate besides that repetition breeds habit?

I still sometimes have to stop myself from automatically crossing myself when I pass the cemetery outside my dorm. Or when I walked in the Pita Pit some Newman center kids were saying grace at the table, I came in as they were crossing themselves and did likewise without thought.

You give a vague mandate, why not something substantive? Why not something that will give a loud and clear answer? I think it's because you all deep down know that if your God is put to the test he probably will not answer. I mean surely one of you all has the requisite mustard seed worth of faith that Christ promised would enable you to move mountains, why not pray with all piety and sincerity that a mountain move? I know Christ said "put not the Lord your God to the test" but he also said "knock and the door shall be opened". You can chalk it up to "God answers every prayer, but sometimes the answer is no" I suppose, but after enough prayers go unanswered the silence really does become deafening.
[/quote]

Well first of all Hass if you suggest something that is more substantive than holiness, go ahead and share it with the rest of the class. Because as far as I know, there is nothing more substantive.

You'd like to minimize this most likely because it makes you uncomfortable. I get that. If someone were to pray for holiness sincerely and daily, the action in and of itself would add to their holiness and in all likelihood they would continue the prayer.

And it would give yet one more example of how you really don't know what you're talking about.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Hassan' date='14 September 2009 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1252950763' post='1966316']
You give a vague mandate, why not something substantive? Why not something that will give a loud and clear answer? I think it's because you all deep down know that if your God is put to the test he probably will not answer. I mean surely one of you all has the requisite mustard seed worth of faith that Christ promised would enable you to move mountains, why not pray with all piety and sincerity that a mountain move? I know Christ said “put not the Lord your God to the test” but he also said “knock and the door shall be opened”. You can chalk it up to "God answers every prayer, but sometimes the answer is no" I suppose, but after enough prayers go unanswered the silence really does become deafening.
[/quote]

Careful what you wish for... "loud and clear" answers from God come with high commands. Typically, God speaks with a whisper in the quiet.

Like we said, the purpose of prayer is to recognize our place before God, to express thanksgiving, and to make requests under His will, being confident in God's love. Recently the pope has written about the desert of a human heart that is distant and cold towards God. Likewise, the biggest mountain God can move is the human heart. He doesn't want your heart because of the things he can do for you; he wants you to love Him simply because He is your God and Father. Maybe this is why He has withheld positive answers to your prayers.

Do you want faith?

[Hassan]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='14 September 2009 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1252951653' post='1966318']
Well first of all Hass if you suggest something that is more substantive than holiness, go ahead and share it with the rest of the class. Because as far as I know, there is nothing more substantive.[/QUOTE]

[img]http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Helen-Vladykina/Russian-Tea-Print-C12209588.jpeg[/img]


[QUOTE]You'd like to minimize this most likely because it makes you uncomfortable. I get that.[/QUOTE]

People praying for holiness does not make me the least bit uncomfortable, I'm always happy to help a confused Catholic freshman find the Newman center, help them feel comfortable about being able to express their faith in the largely progressive, secular environment that is the campus, and help them find things to do which will allow them to be socially active without having to compromise their faith. How your insightful predictions of my inner psychological states went awry given how well you know me as a person I cannot say.

I minimize your response because I feel that your answer to kitty's questions is nothing more than a copout.

[QUOTE]If someone were to pray for holiness sincerely and daily, the action in and of itself would add to their holiness and in all likelihood they would continue the prayer.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if there were power in prayer that train of thought would run quite smoothly.

[QUOTE]And it would give yet one more example of how you really don't know what you're talking about.
[/quote]

Edited September 14, 2009 by Hassan