eagle_eye222001 Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 August 2009 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1250978093' post='1954437'] I am afraid that many people at this forum would be shocked if they were to read what the saints and Fathers had to say when they confronted evil, because they were never concerned about being polite. [/quote] New thread on this?
Selah Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote]I am afraid that many people at this forum would be shocked if they were to read what the saints and Fathers had to say when they confronted evil, because they were never concerned about being polite. [/quote] Yes, I've read what many had to say. And I didn't like it, and I am not obligated to like it or think that they behavior was right (I.E. St. Nicholas slapping Arius)They aren't infallible. They aren't some super prophets simply because they have the name "Saint". When did Jesus say "slap the heretics!"? When did he say, "Insult people you don't agree with!"? He didn't But he did say, "turn the other cheek". He did say, "Go a mile with your enemy." "Give your enemy your cloak." He said "Pray" not, "lash out and act like a fool so you can end up on Fox News late at night duking it out with O'Reilly...and or Huckabee." Maybe we need to start doing following Jesus' example instead of paving our own.
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='22 August 2009 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1250978300' post='1954439'] New thread on this? [/quote] Perhaps you should start a thread on St. John Chrysostom's "Discourses Against the Judaizers," because they are often held up by moderns as examples of patristic anti-semitism. It should be noted that his views on Judaizing heretics are common to all the Fathers and to the canons issued at the ecumenical and particular synods. Edited August 22, 2009 by Apotheoun
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1250978365' post='1954440'] Yes, I've read what many had to say. And I didn't like it, and I am not obligated to like it or think that they behavior was right (I.E. St. Nicholas slapping Arius)They aren't infallible. They aren't some super prophets simply because they have the name "Saint". When did Jesus say "slap the heretics!"? When did he say, "Insult people you don't agree with!"? He didn't But he did say, "turn the other cheek". He did say, "Go a mile with your enemy." "Give your enemy your cloak." He said "Pray" not, "lash out and act like a fool so you can end up on Fox News late at night duking it out with O'Reilly...and or Huckabee." Maybe we need to start doing following Jesus' example instead of paving our own. [/quote] Jesus said to "shake the dust from your feet," and he also spoke of excommunicating those who refused to believe the doctrine of the faith. Jesus was not an effeminate man, even though He is often portrayed that way today. Edited August 22, 2009 by Apotheoun
Selah Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote]Jesus said to "shake the dust from your feet," and spoke of excommunication. Jesus was not an effeminate man, even though He is often portrayed that way today. [/quote] Because we ALL know that compassion and kindness is for wussies. Effieminate simply because he was caring and kind? Because he didn't call people names? Because he didn't slap people who disagreed with him across the face? Because he didn't slaughter innocent people who didn't subscribe to a certain belief system? Who the heck are you worshipping? Edited August 22, 2009 by Selah
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1250978683' post='1954443'] Because we ALL know that compassion and kindness is for wussies. [/quote] Anyone who separates truth and love is lost, but love does not mean that one must couch the truth in words that are ineffectual. Moreover, truth requires that one speak clearly and concisely in order to avoid causing further damage by allowing heretics to assent to something vague.
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1250978683' post='1954443'] Who the heck are you worshipping? [/quote] I worship Christ the Pantokrator, from whom no sin can be hidden, including sins of omission. Who do you worship? Edited August 22, 2009 by Apotheoun
Selah Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote]I worship Christ the Pantokrator, from whom no sin can be hidden, including sins of omission? Who do you worship? [/quote] I worship Jesus, the Kind Messiah who opened up His heart and arms to the sinners, the needy, and got really ticked off at the Pharisees who felt the need to constantly condemn others. I worship Jesus, who said, "Forgive." Who said, "Pray." Who allowed a prostitute to wash His feet. Who died and rose again. I worship the One who has always been and always will be. I worship the Divine Lover who is compassionate and never turns away anyone. Even Homosexuals. YES. I said it. He turns no one away. He LOVES. He FORGIVES. He CARES. And I follow that example and try to do the same in my life. Rachel Scott seemed to understand that well, which is why I love her so. No, she wasn't a Catholic, but she was a better Christian than many Catholics I have come across.
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I must say that I do admire the Russian Orthodox Church, because when the Episcopal Church approved of same sex blessings, the ROC broke off dialogue with the ECUSA until it recants its moral error and re-embraces a Christian moral position. Edited August 22, 2009 by Apotheoun
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1250979106' post='1954447'] I worship Jesus, the Kind Messiah who opened up His heart and arms to the sinners, the needy, and got really ticked off at the Pharisees who felt the need to constantly condemn others. I worship Jesus, who said, "Forgive." Who said, "Pray." Who allowed a prostitute to wash His feet. Who died and rose again. I worship the One who has always been and always will be. I worship the Divine Lover who is compassionate and never turns away anyone. Even Homosexuals. YES. I said it. He turns no one away. He LOVES. He FORGIVES. He CARES. And I follow that example and try to do the same in my life. Rachel Scott seemed to understand that well, which is why I love her so. No, she wasn't a Catholic, but she was a better Christian than many Catholics I have come across. [/quote] Christ's arms are open to repentant sinners, but if one continues to sin he is far from Him by his own choice. As He said to the woman caught in adultery "Go and sin no more." Edited August 22, 2009 by Apotheoun
cappie Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='23 August 2009 - 06:46 AM' timestamp='1250973966' post='1954403'] Wow, I'm not sure I've ever seen a conversation decay so abruptly on Phatmass before. [/quote] [i]" But the common saying, expressed in various ways and attributed to various authors, must be recalled with approval: in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity."[/i] John XXIII's first encyclical, Ad Petri cathedram of 1959. paragraph 72:
Selah Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote] " But the common saying, expressed in various ways and attributed to various authors, must be recalled with approval: in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; [b]in all things, charity.[/b]"[/quote] Thank you, Father. Your posts give me hope
Vincent Vega Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1250979106' post='1954447'] Rachel Scott seemed to understand that well, which is why I love her so. No, she wasn't a Catholic, but she was a better Christian than many Catholics I have come across. [/quote] Did you know her? (not intended as persnickety) Edited August 22, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS
Resurrexi Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='22 August 2009 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1250981069' post='1954466'] Did you know her? [/quote] Who is she?
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1250981028' post='1954464'] Thank you, Father. Your posts give me hope [/quote] Alas, you have misunderstood the quotation, for there is no liberty in error, but only in things doubtful, and the topic at hand is not in doubt.
Vincent Vega Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='22 August 2009 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1250981093' post='1954467'] Who is she? [/quote] One of the victims of the Columbine Massacre.
Selah Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 [quote]Did you know her? [/quote] I know her based upon what her father, her sisters, and her brothers have said about her. I know what she did, what she said, how she lived her life. Her example is what I follow, or try to, and it angers me that so few people understand that THIS is what Jesus was talking about! How she treated others...hello!!!!
Apotheoun Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 It is not love, nor is it a form of treating others according to the golden rule, to let them stay comfortably in theological or moral error. One is obliged in faith to tell a member of the ELCA that the community to which he belongs has fallen into heresy.
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