eagle_eye222001 Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='23 August 2009 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1251007333' post='1954760'] Well, it's been an interesting weekend with my parents and hearing about the aftermath within their congregation. A number of families have already submitted letters of resignation and it's safe to say that my own parents are no longer part of the ELCA, so while the ELCA may be the largest denomination to ordain practicing homosexuals, I have a feeling their numbers are about to drop rather dramatically. They don't have the hierarchical structure like the Episcopal Church does, so it should be easier for people and congregations to go elsewhere, so a split is inevitable. I haven't yet raised the possibility with my parents of going Catholic, and not sure if I will right away. That's a mildly touchy subject, and besides, I believe it deserves some reservation because becoming Catholic should not be presented or treated like another denomination among the many. [/quote] Sounds like a wise strategy.
LouisvilleFan Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='22 August 2009 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1250981206' post='1954470'] I know her based upon what her father, her sisters, and her brothers have said about her. I know what she did, what she said, how she lived her life. Her example is what I follow, or try to, and it angers me that so few people understand that THIS is what Jesus was talking about! How she treated others...hello!!!! [/quote] The commandment we are given is to be charitable [i]and[/i] faithful to Church teaching. I've gotten along just fine with every homosexual friend God's put in my life, and with every one of them I've shared my faith without dilution, but also in a manner that is peaceful and charitable. I get along just fine with my pro-choice friends and relatives too, and they know full well where I stand. Part of it may be that I have a knack for getting along with just about anyone, but on the same token, every person is made in the image of God and deserves to be treated with respect. Being respectful to a homosexual means that I share my honest beliefs just as they share their own; lying is disrespectful and turns homosexuality into the price at which genuine friendship is sold for superficial companionship. Edited August 23, 2009 by LouisvilleFan
Vincent Vega Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='23 August 2009 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1251007333' post='1954760'] Well, it's been an interesting weekend with my parents and hearing about the aftermath within their congregation. A number of families have already submitted letters of resignation and it's safe to say that my own parents are no longer part of the ELCA, so while the ELCA may be the largest denomination to ordain practicing homosexuals, I have a feeling their numbers are about to drop rather dramatically. They don't have the hierarchical structure like the Episcopal Church does, so it should be easier for people and congregations to go elsewhere, so a split is inevitable. I haven't yet raised the possibility with my parents of going Catholic, and not sure if I will right away. That's a mildly touchy subject, and besides, I believe it deserves some reservation because becoming Catholic should not be presented or treated like another denomination among the many. [/quote] What a blessing of an opportunity to have though. I agree - handle with care (or prayer) though.
iheartjp2 Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Okay, I said this in another post, but I feel it should be said again. There is a dichotomy that should be made between reasons for offense. If someone is offended by the gospel of Jesus Christ, then so be it. Christ himself said that there would be those who would get offended at the truth. However, if someone, especially in their own words, takes offense because you appear to have absolutely no manners or tact, then they're clearly not so much offended by Christ as they are by you, which is completely reprehensible (on your part). This thread is just another example of how people can take a tragedy and project themselves so much further than Christ's message.
jkaands Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='21 August 2009 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1250904245' post='1954101'] It is disheartening to see a weakening of the Christian forces on moral code. It used to be if you were at least Christian, you could be counted on to oppose contraception, and homosexuality. We are losing allies. However, I continue to take heart in Matthew 16:18 :sword Someone sees some light.[/quote] It's been a long time since mainstream Protestant denominations have opposed contraception.
jkaands Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' date='23 August 2009 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1251010390' post='1954790'] I don't have a problem with gay pastors. [/quote] I think that many Protestants and I suspect some Catholics feel that way. I think that the Episcopalians and the Evang. Lutherans knew that many of their pastors were gay and in the closet, and were very good pastors. They also were meeting previously closeted, now openly gay people in their daily lives, and saw no problem with it. Attitudes towards gays are clearing changing with age, the younger generations very different from the older. Protestants don't tend to look to the Old Testament for advice on moral behavior. All the men had wives and concubines, including King David; the concubines were sex slaves, the spoils of battle. Women taken in adultery were stoned to death.
jkaands Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 August 2009 - 05:02 PM' timestamp='1250978527' post='1954441'] Perhaps you should start a thread on St. John Chrysostom's "Discourses Against the Judaizers," because they are often held up by moderns as examples of patristic anti-semitism. It should be noted that his views on Judaizing heretics are common to all the Fathers and to the canons issued at the ecumenical and particular synods. [/quote] Chrysostom was a notorious anti-Semite. So was Vicente Ferrer. Protestants tend not to make saints of people. Notables remain just that, notable, considered brave leaders, not saints, and not prayed to. Dietrich Bonhoffer, a martyr, not sainted.
rachael Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='The Bus Station' date='22 August 2009 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1250989771' post='1954594'] This thread gives me gas. [/quote] These eggs I had this morning are giving me gas.
eagle_eye222001 Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' date='23 August 2009 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1251043361' post='1954888'] It's been a long time since mainstream Protestant denominations have opposed contraception. [/quote] Yes. However it was a big moral belief they used to uphold. I was using it as an example of a big moral change they have made.
thessalonian Posted August 23, 2009 Author Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='23 August 2009 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1251007443' post='1954762'] Sounds like a wise strategy. [/quote] I think however that at some point it should be pointed out to them that through thick and thin and all the contraversy surrounding moral issues, in the end the Catholic Church has ALWAYS stuck to it's gun. The gates of hell have not prevailed against true moral teaching.
Paddington Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 August 2009 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1250981143' post='1954468'] Alas, you have misunderstood the quotation, for there is no liberty in error, but only in things doubtful, and the topic at hand is not in doubt. [/quote] The "things doubtful" from Father Cappie probably applied to which is the best way to condemn sin. That's how I took it anyways, but it sounds like you didn't. It's not heresy to - beliefs aside - act more like John Tesh than Michael Savage.
eagle_eye222001 Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' date='23 August 2009 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1251047192' post='1954953'] I think however that at some point it should be pointed out to them that through thick and thin and all the contraversy surrounding moral issues, in the end the Catholic Church has ALWAYS stuck to it's gun. The gates of hell have not prevailed against true moral teaching. [/quote] I agree.
Hassan Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='23 August 2009 - 03:48 AM' timestamp='1251013683' post='1954800'] Okay, I said this in another post, but I feel it should be said again. There is a dichotomy that should be made between reasons for offense. If someone is offended by the gospel of Jesus Christ, then so be it. Christ himself said that there would be those who would get offended at the truth. However, if someone, especially in their own words, takes offense because you appear to have absolutely no manners or tact, then they're clearly not so much offended by Christ as they are by you, which is completely reprehensible (on your part). This thread is just another example of how people can take a tragedy and project themselves so much further than Christ's message. [/quote] Perfectly put.
Hassan Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 August 2009 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1250979560' post='1954450'] I must say that I do admire the Russian Orthodox Church, because when the Episcopal Church approved of same sex blessings, the ROC broke off dialogue with the ECUSA until it recants its moral error and re-embraces a Christian moral position. [/quote] I guess the Episcopalians should simply be complicit in the despotism of the ruling tyrant of the land like the Russian Orthodox hierarchy was with the Tsars so often through the years. I suppose that is acceptable, while ordaining gay men to be Priests makes them unworthy of duologue with the most Holy Russian Orthodox Church.
Resurrexi Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 August 2009 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1250979560' post='1954450'] I must say that I do admire the Russian Orthodox Church, because when the Episcopal Church approved of same sex blessings, the ROC broke off dialogue with the ECUSA until it recants its moral error and re-embraces a Christian moral position. [/quote] I admire Patriarch Ignatius of Moscow who left the Russian Orthodox Church in order to convert the holy Catholic Church.
jkaands Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='23 August 2009 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1251007333' post='1954760'] Well, it's been an interesting weekend with my parents and hearing about the aftermath within their congregation. A number of families have already submitted letters of resignation and it's safe to say that my own parents are no longer part of the ELCA, so while the ELCA may be the largest denomination to ordain practicing homosexuals, I have a feeling their numbers are about to drop rather dramatically. They don't have the hierarchical structure like the Episcopal Church does, so it should be easier for people and congregations to go elsewhere, so a split is inevitable. I haven't yet raised the possibility with my parents of going Catholic, and not sure if I will right away. That's a mildly touchy subject, and besides, I believe it deserves some reservation because becoming Catholic should not be presented or treated like another denomination among the many. [/quote] I am totally unfamiliar w/ the evang Lutherans. Are they--well, conceivably--similar to the Episcopal church? Espico's and Luth's sometimes share facilities and i think sometimes services. Missouri Synod Lutherans are the strict ones--and i don't know how the others break down. I think that it would be funny if the ECUSA (Espisc Church USA) and the evang Luth's got together!
Apotheoun Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='23 August 2009 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1251057875' post='1955052'] I admire Patriarch Ignatius of Moscow who left the Russian Orthodox Church in order to convert the holy Catholic Church. [/quote] He's an interesting man. A fierce opponent of the Eastern Catholics, who supported a usurper on the Russian throne, and was imprisoned for political reasons. Later he was freed by Polish forces, move to Poland, and converted to Byzantine Catholicism.
Resurrexi Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='23 August 2009 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1251060083' post='1955101'] He's an interesting man. [b]A fierce opponent of the Eastern Catholics[/b], who supported a usurper on the Russian throne, and was imprisoned for political reasons. Later he was freed by Polish forces, move to Poland, and [b]converted to Byzantine Catholicism[/b]. [/quote] He sounds like a St. Paul. Edited August 23, 2009 by Resurrexi
Apotheoun Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='23 August 2009 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1251060388' post='1955106'] He sounds like a St. Paul. [/quote] Perhaps, except for the political intrigue. It's never wise to support a usurper.
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