We Can Disagree And Still Be Respectful

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1260478461' post='2017768']
I'd prefer if we stuck within a very narrow interpretation of 'on topic' in this thread in particular.
[/quote]

I was speaking in relation to the topic, We Can Disagree And Still Be Respectful. Yes we can, yet there as been a on going theme of protest against Apo, HCF, Soc, DominicanSoul and myself because we speak truth with [i]conviction, in a manner that bespeaks the determination with which we believe it.[/i]

That unfounded protest found its way in this tread if that was your intent or not.

Edited December 10, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[MissyP89]

Even if this is the debate table, I think Nihil was trying to speak to charity here.

Speak softly and carry a big stick.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Maggie' date='10 December 2009 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1260476003' post='2017747']
I'm so depressed by this. Clearly both Islam and Christianity contain people who don't know how to conduct themselves as guests or as hosts. I'm assuming their approaches would be totally different face to face, I assume they would't say to a Muslim they met for the first time at a cocktail party, "if only Islam were a growth on someone's face, then it could be gotten rid of." Because people are supposed to have manners. And to pass it off as "well, I'm just speaking the hard Truth" is a horrible abuse of our faith. The Gospel offers a challenge to everyone, it is not an excuse to go around being nasty to people.
[/quote]
...then maybe you should stop criticizing those who don't agree with you...

Edited December 10, 2009 by dominicansoul

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1260479115' post='2017777']
So are you ok with a naked Jesus made of chocolate on display for "art"?
I'm not (and yes it happened). Freedom of speech has its limits.

There are debates to be had and then there are debates that should be shunned. You should not give a medium to such hatred.
And if I'm to accept your premise, that you publicly debate them, then where are the debates?
Rather you have topics with hate and lies being propagated with little to no argument against them. Even worse, you have posts praising bigoted posts!


Where is the outrage? Where is the condemnation?
It's amazing how Muslims are asked to do this and do that and bend over backwards for the sake of speaking out against that which is "bad", but no call upon the Christians.

I spent over an hour discussing the complexity of the Imam Anwar case and I'm being called out because of it and yet you have "idiotic" posts talking about growths on Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him!) and instead of outrage it is met with praise.

I specifically quoted both posts and instead of moderation, I was told this is a colorful site.
Yah very colorful...

But it's not my site, I will not report on this forum. You guys are free to do whatever you like. I'm just glad we as Muslims on MM have much more control and respect.

[/quote]


Am I ok with a naked Jesus made out of chocolate? Good question. Number one, that's not freedom of speech, that's freedom of expression. Number two, I would "vote with my money" to try to pressure art galleries to reject this artist. Is it the artist's right to make that piece though?... Yea, I think it is. At that point the question really is "does anyone have the right to display it?" Like I said, with my money I'll vote against it, but that's not censorship. That's just my right as a consumer.

In any case, this is a tangent that I don't think we need to address. You're concerned about what you see to be anti-Islamic posts that you've seen on Phatmass. Why exactly are you directing this outrage at me? My very first post indicated that I think there have been failings on the part of both Christians and Muslims over the last two days or so.

I would suggest above all that if you take offense at a particular post, then address it calmly and respectfully. It works wonders towards facilitating a truly engaging and informative debate. I really want to emphasize the calm part, because too often on this forum, and probably others, people jump on a post and fly into a rage. This really isn't healthy. We're all adults here, or at least very nearly adults (to be safe), so we should all be able to disagree calmly and respectfully, and then discuss why we disagree. Have some people failed to do this? Absolutely. That's human nature. If you want to change it though, start with yourself. It's what I'm trying to do. I forget who said it, but "be the change you want to see in the world." It's by far the best place to begin. People follow that example. I can say this with some confidence. If they don't, then at least your conscience is clear.

Finally, I'm disappointed that you're not planning on reporting offensive posts. You've joined Phatmass as a member. That means that you're expected to follow our rules, and it also means that everybody else is expected to follow our rules when interacting with you. You have every right to make a report when you feel that you or your friends from MM are being treated wrongly.


Have a blessed day;

Blood of Christ, strength of confessors, save us.

-Nihil Obstat

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1260479160' post='2017779']
I was speaking in relation to the topic, We Can Disagree And Still Be Respectful. Yes we can, yet there as been a on going theme of protest against Apo, HCF, Soc, DominicanSoul and myself because we speak truth with [i]conviction, in a manner that bespeaks the determination with which we believe it.[/i]

That unfounded protest found its way in this tread if that was your intent or not.
[/quote]
That's your right. I was just telling you my preference. Anyone is free to ignore it at their whim.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1260479692' post='2017789']
My very first post indicated that I think there have been failings on the part of both Christians and Muslims over the last two days or so.
[/quote]


[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1260479769' post='2017791']
That's your right. I was just telling you my preference. Anyone is free to ignore it at their whim.
[/quote]

But I'm not ignoring it, what I stated is directly in relation to the topic, by your definition of your first post. The only Christians that have been speaking out against Islam these last two days has been Apo, HCF, Soc, DominicanSoul and myself.

[MissyP89]

I stand by the adage that flies go to honey before vinegar, but that's just me.

If you told my best friend that his denomination was a vile perversion of Truth or similarly, that he was a heretic, he'd close his heart to you immediately. I'm out to speak Truth and do so unequivocally, but I also do so in a way that will avoid pushing them away from the Gospel. :shrug:

Edited December 10, 2009 by MissyP89

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1260480210' post='2017800']
But I'm not ignoring it, what I stated is directly in relation to the topic, by your definition of your first post. The only Christians that have been speaking out against Islam these last two days has been Apo, HCF, Soc, DominicanSoul and myself.
[/quote]
If you believe you've said absolutely nothing that could have been said better, or in a more Christian manner, then so be it. I won't say a word against you.

I'll say to you the same thing I said to Apotheoun; I have great respect for you, but I don't respect you so much that I think you're perfect.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='MissyP89' date='10 December 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1260480323' post='2017802']
I stand by the adage that flies go to honey before vinegar, but that's just me.

If you told my best friend that his denomination was a vile perversion of Truth or similarly, that he was a heretic, he'd close his heart to you immediately. I'm out to speak Truth and do so unequivocally, but I also do so in a way that will avoid pushing them away from the Gospel. :shrug:
[/quote]

That has merit, but sooner or later the hard facts of life must be presented. Christ lost many a follower because He refused to use sugar to sweeten the deal. He simply laid out the truth directly and with conviction.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1260480448' post='2017803']
If you believe you've said absolutely nothing that could have been said better, or in a more Christian manner, then so be it. I won't say a word against you.

I'll say to you the same thing I said to Apotheoun; I have great respect for you, but I don't respect you so much that I think you're perfect.
[/quote]

I am human I am not prefect, and I did not say I was prefect. I am simply tired of being talked down to because I try my best to speak truth directly without watering it down. And that seems to be the underlining issue with those that cry rivers about what the others and I have stated these last two days.

What I have stated has been to the best of my ability in a Christian manner.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1260481050' post='2017809']
I am human I am not prefect, and I did not say I was prefect. I am simply tired of being talked down to because I try my best to speak truth directly without watering it down. And that seems to be the underlining issue with those that cry rivers about what the others and I have stated these last two days.

What I have stated has been to the best of my ability in a Christian manner.
[/quote]
I didn't mean to imply that you think you're perfect.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1260481092' post='2017810']
I didn't mean to imply that you think you're perfect.
[/quote]

It's ok, don't worry about it.

[mommas_boy]

My perspective:

"Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. Only if unavoidably necessary, point out that the other is a heretic."

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MissyP89' date='10 December 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1260479464' post='2017785']
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
[/quote]

Can I use the stick for beatings?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1260481453' post='2017817']
Can I use the stick for beatings?
[/quote]
That depends on how strong Rexi is coming on to you.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1260481522' post='2017818']
That depends on how strong Rexi is coming on to you.
[/quote]

ROFL.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1260481522' post='2017818']
That depends on how strong Rexi is coming on to you.
[/quote]

Poor rexi.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='10 December 2009 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1260481705' post='2017822']
Poor rexi.
[/quote]

[MissyP89]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1260481453' post='2017817']
Can I use the stick for beatings?
[/quote]



Swing swing swing from the tabletop....


:::RUNNING AWAY NOW, KTHBAI:::

Edited December 10, 2009 by MissyP89

[Maggyie]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1260480567' post='2017805']
That has merit, but sooner or later the hard facts of life must be presented. Christ lost many a follower because He refused to use sugar to sweeten the deal. He simply laid out the truth directly and with conviction.
[/quote]

The problem I think is that your approach (and the approach of the others) seems to lack the sweetness of the Gospel. No one has ever been converted by "the hard facts of life." There are Protestants who make this mistake and come around to my alma mater every year to explain to the students that they are damned to burn for eternity unless they pray the Salvation Prayer. Needless to say they meet little success and much ridicule, which of course they attribute to being "persecuted for the sake of the Name," when really the derision has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with their presentation of His message. People are converted by the joy that is promised to them, the promise of new life in Christ, and then they accept the hard words as part of the path they must take. Your posts to our Muslim visitors are motivated by love for them, I have no doubt, but you make the love easy to miss... and that is the problem...