Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1260484305' post='2017898'] Saint Paul would not read the passage about the Pharisee and say "I'm not like that." Saint Paul would say, "alas, I am like that, the chief of sinners." [/quote] If you are correct, than anyone who says "There but by the grace of God go I." Would be a hypocrite. Prove that KofC is a hypocrite.
extempers Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1260483966' post='2017882'] For that to be true I would have to forget the many Imams and Clerics who called and call for the death of the United States. [/quote] Not exactly the same. I don't think anyone on the forum realizes all these "death calls" are reactionary. Had the US not directly and indirectly killed literally millions of Muslims, then things would be different. But one track mind works well. Muslims are bad, GRRR! [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1260484015' post='2017884'] Any Catholic who speaks such hate is not reflecting the teachings of Jesus Christ and is therefore not an accurate representation of Catholicism. [/quote] Replace Catholic with Muslim and Jesus (as) (or even the original gospel of Jesus0 with Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Catholicism with Islam. Now you've just answered most of your own arguments against Islam, yay!
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 P.S. I'm not calling you a Pharisee. But I thought I should point out to you that it is highly ironic for someone to read the Pharisee passage and then sort of say "well, of course, I'm not a Pharisee." Because thats kind of what the Pharisee does to the tax collector in the story.
Varg Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1260484407' post='2017899'] There there. I was banned for my reply to you. [/quote] How long?
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='10 December 2009 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1260484436' post='2017901'] If you are correct, than anyone who says "There but by the grace of God go I." Would be a hypocrite. Prove that KofC is a hypocrite. [/quote] Yes, please Lilllabettt prove it. [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1260484478' post='2017904'] P.S. I'm not calling you a Pharisee. But I thought I should point out to you that it is highly ironic for someone to read the Pharisee passage and then sort of say "well, of course, I'm not a Pharisee." Because thats kind of what the Pharisee does to the tax collector in the story. [/quote] Really? Sure looked like you did just that, and also called me proud, and a hypocrite. [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1260483903' post='2017880'] [b]You know, by saying that you're not a Pharisee, you make yourself a Pharisee?[/b] In other words, you're saying 'i'm not a hypocrite" ... which means you are one. It's like the whole humility/pride thing. The second you think you're humble, you're proud. [/quote]
Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) A hypocrite is a person who pretends to possess virtues that he actually does not practice. Simply saying, "I am not a hypocrite," does not make a person a hypocrite. Edited December 10, 2009 by Apotheoun
HisChildForever Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='10 December 2009 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1260484553' post='2017907'] How long? [/quote] 7 days. How long were you gone for?
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1260484839' post='2017911'] Yes, please Lilllabettt prove it. Really? Sure looked like you did just that, and also called me proud, and a hypocrite. [/quote] Okay, I should have said "make yourself LOOK like a Pharisee." It depends if you read the story of the Pharisee and think "thank God I'm not like the Pharisee" (which given the story is actually quite hilarious, that anyone would do that, wouldnt you say?) in your heart. Because what it LOOKS like here on PM is the story of the Pharisee was posted, describing a typical fault of Christians everywhere, (rash judgment of people/self-rigtheousnes, etc.,) and your reply was "I'm not a Pharisee."
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='10 December 2009 - 05:42 PM' timestamp='1260484939' post='2017912'] A hypocrite is a person who pretends to possess virtues that he actually does not practice. Simply saying, "I am not a hypocrite, does not make a person a hypocrite." [/quote] Especially when that same person compares himself to St Paul and his statement that he was chief of sinners. Now if I completely denied being a sinner I could see how I would be a Pharisee and hypocrite, but I did not deny being a sinner.
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) . Edited December 10, 2009 by KnightofChrist
Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1260485129' post='2017918'] Okay, I should have said "make yourself LOOK like a Pharisee." It depends if you read the story of the Pharisee and think "thank God I'm not like the Pharisee" (which given the story is actually quite hilarious, that anyone would do that, wouldnt you say?) in your heart. Because what it LOOKS like here on PM is the story of the Pharisee was posted, describing a typical fault of Christians everywhere, (rash judgment of people/self-rigtheousnes, etc.,) and your reply was "I'm not a Pharisee." [/quote] Wow, that is a nice clarification, because one should never judge merely by appearances. Too bad it is not an apology to KofC, but that would require something more from you.
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1260485158' post='2017919'] Especially when that same person compares himself to St Paul and his statement that he was chief of sinners. Now if I completely denied being a sinner I could see how I would be a Pharisee and hypocrite, but I did not deny being a sinner. [/quote] So do you deny being a hypocrite? Cuz I doubt St. Paul would deny being a hypocrite. What with the "I want to do one thing and I do another" stuff he talked about ...
HisChildForever Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 I don't think you're a Pharisee, Knight.
Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1260485189' post='2017920'] Especially when that same person compares himself to St Paul and his statement that he was chief of sinners. Now if I completely denied being a sinner I could see how I would be a Pharisee and hypocrite, but I did not deny being a sinner. [/quote] Yes, plus the distinction between venial and mortal sin should be borne in mind by a Catholic. A man who is in a state of grace is not a sinner (in the mortal sense), although he may have committed many venial sins. Luther had a problem with this Catholic doctrine.
Apotheoun Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1260485291' post='2017925'] I am a hypocrite, btw [/quote] That would only follow if you pretend to practice virtue, while actually doing the opposite. Don't confuse the fact that you - like me, and everyone other person - commit venial sins (and on occasion mortal ones).
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote]Okay, I should have said "make yourself LOOK like a Pharisee." It depends if you read the story of the Pharisee and think "thank God I'm not like the Pharisee" (which given the story is actually quite hilarious, that anyone would do that, wouldnt you say?) in your heart. Because what it LOOKS like here on PM is the story of the Pharisee was posted, describing a typical fault of Christians everywhere, (rash judgment of people/self-rigtheousnes, etc.,) and your reply was "I'm not a Pharisee."[/quote] The Pharisee did not see and denied his own sin,[b] I did not, I do not.[/b] I clearly stated I was a sinner, and a chief of sinners as matter of fact. The Pharisee did not do that or even come close. Again my full quote was thus "I am not a Pharisee. I repeat the words of Saint Paul "A faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save [b]sinners, of whom I am the chief.[/b]"
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 ok, lets drop it, huh. Clearly I misunderstood. I think its likely you are not an actual Pharisee, okay. But I thought you should know what that comment looks like. (to me. maybe I'm wearing wierd goggles or sumtin.)
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='10 December 2009 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1260485724' post='2017932'] ok, lets drop it, huh. Clearly I misunderstood. I think its likely you are not an actual Pharisee, okay. But I thought you should know what that comment looks like. (to me. maybe I'm wearing wierd goggles or sumtin.) [/quote] Okey doke, but you are seeing things. Even so God Bless you sister! Edited December 10, 2009 by KnightofChrist
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1260485789' post='2017933'] Okey doke, but you are seeing things. Even so God Bless you sister! [/quote]
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