Lying To Ourselves

[Lil Red]

+JMJ+
[url="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/lying_to_ourselves_sjQTP9OuIQIrjE0oaYch2K"]Article from the NY Post[/url]
How did we help Umar Abdulmutallab, a wealthy Muslim university graduate who decided that Allah wanted him to slaughter Christians on their most joyous holiday?

By continuing to lie to ourselves. Although willing -- at last -- to briefly use the word "terror," yesterday President Obama still refused to make a connection between the action, the date and Islam.

Was it just a ticketing accident that led to a bombing attempt on Christmas? Was it all about blackout dates and frequent-flyer miles?

It wasn't. You know it. And I know it. But our government refuses to know it. Despite vast databases crammed with evidence, our leaders -- of both parties -- still refuse to connect Islamist terrorism with Islam.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/lying_to_ourselves_sjQTP9OuIQIrjE0oaYch2K#ixzz0bD7HVFTF

[eagle_eye222001]

Political correctness.

[HisChildForever]

Fair. Wake up, America!

[jeffpugh]

Interesting article. Very strong voice, this author has.

[Gregorius]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='30 December 2009 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1262209831' post='2027591']
Fair. Wake up, America!
[/quote]
Ah, awake! the cry of the prophets, the Word Himself, and His Church. It disturbs me how few people listen. We can try though!

[HisChildForever]

This is a good thread. Shame that it has so many views and yet so little replies.

[Hilde]

Oh yes, there seems to be a link. But what to do?

[Saint Therese]

This goes way beyond political correctness. Even a moron knows when a cigar is a cigar and a muslim man screaming "Allahu Akbar" as he sprays machine gun fire on people ( or attempts to blow up a plane) is terrorism and has to do with his being muslim.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='31 December 2009 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1262286641' post='2027867']
This goes way beyond political correctness. Even a moron knows when a cigar is a cigar and a muslim man screaming "Allahu Akbar" as he sprays machine gun fire on people ( or attempts to blow up a plane) is terrorism and has to do with his being muslim.
[/quote]

Oh we all know it has nothing to do with Islam, the man is just mentally disturbed! /sarcasm

Good post.

[dominicansoul]

...i don't understand it...what exactly do these islamic terrorists want? is it really just killing in the name of their god? or is there something else? sometimes I think we should just give them their own area of the world to live in...far away from civilized people and let them lead the barbaric existence they live and die for...

...if you don't like the west...quit coming over here!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='31 December 2009 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1262287755' post='2027878']
...i don't understand it...what exactly do these islamic terrorists want? is it really just killing in the name of their god? or is there something else? sometimes I think we should just give them their own area of the world to live in...far away from civilized people and let them lead the barbaric existence they live and die for...

...if you don't like the west...quit coming over here!
[/quote]

They WANT the world. Sequestering them will do nothing. You remember what one of our Muslim friends said: "Islam will dominate the world."

[Moosey]

Yes, I remember that. And he still insisted it wouldn't be by force. I wouldn't come quietly. So they'd have to force me right? Sheesh.

I ain't scared. Bring it on.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Moosey' date='31 December 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1262288331' post='2027881']
And he still insisted it wouldn't be by force.
[/quote]

He was being PC.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='31 December 2009 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1262288451' post='2027883']
He was being PC.
[/quote]
Macintosh ftw.

[Happy_Catholic]

Its the funny thing about Islam, I know quite a few Muslims and they are good peaceful people, however, none of them ever denounced those who were behind the 9/11 attacks or behind any of the terrorism. On one hand they talk about peace and being liberal and open minded, but on the other hand they won't speak out against those terrorists who harm.

As a Pro-Lifer, I can tell you when some idiot decides to blow up a clinic or snipe on an abortionist I get so mad and riled up God help the internet! Same with the sex scandals that rock the church on occasion. Being disgusted and chastising those who shoot abortionists does not make me any less Pro-Life. Demanding that paedophile priests be charged in the court system and sent to jail does not make me any less Catholic. So, really, it shouldn't make someone any less Muslim if they denounce what a terrorist does. If I was Muslim, I'd be doing everythign I coudl to distance myself and the faith I claim from those homicidal morons.

As a side note, I can't stand terrorists, they ruin it for everyone! I hate airport security, this talk of full body scanners and scanners that can see through your clothes, as a modest type that just makes me angry. I swear to God, if I was on a plane and some idiot pulled that muck, screw my Pro-Life convictions, I'd pummel his Koran ranting jackseat into the ground!!!

Anyone who thinks they can take me from my faith, by peaceful means or otherwise, is going to be in for a nasty surprise. God's on our side, remember!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Happy_Catholic' date='31 December 2009 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1262292253' post='2027903']
Its the funny thing about Islam, I know quite a few Muslims and they are good peaceful people, however, none of them ever denounced those who were behind the 9/11 attacks or behind any of the terrorism. On one hand they talk about peace and being liberal and open minded, but on the other hand they won't speak out against those terrorists who harm.

As a Pro-Lifer, I can tell you when some idiot decides to blow up a clinic or snipe on an abortionist I get so mad and riled up God help the internet! Same with the sex scandals that rock the church on occasion. Being disgusted and chastising those who shoot abortionists does not make me any less Pro-Life. Demanding that paedophile priests be charged in the court system and sent to jail does not make me any less Catholic. So, really, it shouldn't make someone any less Muslim if they denounce what a terrorist does. If I was Muslim, I'd be doing everythign I coudl to distance myself and the faith I claim from those homicidal morons.

As a side note, I can't stand terrorists, they ruin it for everyone! I hate airport security, this talk of full body scanners and scanners that can see through your clothes, as a modest type that just makes me angry. I swear to God, if I was on a plane and some idiot pulled that muck, screw my Pro-Life convictions, I'd pummel his Koran ranting jackseat into the ground!!!

Anyone who thinks they can take me from my faith, by peaceful means or otherwise, is going to be in for a nasty surprise. God's on our side, remember!
[/quote]

Wow, excellent post. You are SPOT ON. Great minds think alike. Earlier I was saying to a few friends (in our Phatmass chat) that I have NEVER seen, read, or heard a Muslim renounce Islamic terrorism. In fact, I was reading an Imam's blog around the time of Ft. Hood, and was APPALLED by what he wrote. He wrote a very vague condolence to the families but then ranted about the Muslims who are dying over in the Middle East.

[CatherineM]

Which country was it that held telethons for the families of the 9-11 terrorists? I was thinking about that right after the Ft. Hood shooting wondering if they would do the same to raise money for his legal defense.

I had never really thought about it before, but when something like this happens, there are lots of people on TV talking about how Islam is a religion of peace, but they don't actually say that what the person did was horrific to them.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote]On Christmas Day, a Muslim fanatic attempted to butcher hundreds of Christians (dead Jews would've been a bonus). Our response? Have airport security analyze the contents of grandma's mini-bottle of shampoo -- we don't want to "discriminate."

With our lies, self-deception and self-flagellation, we're terror's little helpers.[/quote]

He is very persuasive and does raise some good points.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='31 December 2009 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1262288033' post='2027879']
They WANT the world. Sequestering them will do nothing. You remember what one of our Muslim friends said: "Islam will dominate the world."
[/quote]
Oh yes...what was I thinking? I guess the West deserves what terrorists dish out, 'cos after all we're a bunch of infidels...

[quote name='Hilde' date='31 December 2009 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1262286597' post='2027866']
Oh yes, there seems to be a link. But what to do?
[/quote]
I suggest praying the Rosary against these terrorist attacks. In October 1571, St. Pope Pius V (the first Dominican Pope,) called for all Christians to pray the Holy Rosary so that the tiny, Christian make-shift fleet would be victorious over the larger, stronger moslem fleet at the Battle of Lepanto, Italy. Through the powerful intercession of Our Lady, the Christian fleet was able to overcome the moslems and prevent their intended invasion of the european continent...

The Holy Rosary was God's weapon of choice against the invaders...

[quote name='Happy_Catholic' date='31 December 2009 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1262292253' post='2027903']
Its the funny thing about Islam, I know quite a few Muslims and they are good peaceful people, however, none of them ever denounced those who were behind the 9/11 attacks or behind any of the terrorism. On one hand they talk about peace and being liberal and open minded, but on the other hand they won't speak out against those terrorists who harm.

As a Pro-Lifer, I can tell you when some idiot decides to blow up a clinic or snipe on an abortionist I get so mad and riled up God help the internet! Same with the sex scandals that rock the church on occasion. Being disgusted and chastising those who shoot abortionists does not make me any less Pro-Life. Demanding that paedophile priests be charged in the court system and sent to jail does not make me any less Catholic. So, really, it shouldn't make someone any less Muslim if they denounce what a terrorist does. If I was Muslim, I'd be doing everythign I coudl to distance myself and the faith I claim from those homicidal morons.

As a side note, I can't stand terrorists, they ruin it for everyone! I hate airport security, this talk of full body scanners and scanners that can see through your clothes, as a modest type that just makes me angry. [s]I swear to God[/s], if I was on a plane and some idiot pulled that muck, screw my Pro-Life convictions, I'd pummel his Koran ranting jackseat into the ground!!!

Anyone who thinks they can take me from my faith, by peaceful means or otherwise, is going to be in for a nasty surprise. God's on our side, remember!
[/quote]
great post...!

Edited December 31, 2009 by dominicansoul

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='31 December 2009 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1262288033' post='2027879']
They WANT the world. Sequestering them will do nothing. You remember what one of our Muslim friends said: "Islam will dominate the world."
[/quote]


Do the Muslim Chechens want that, or do they want they mainly Christian Russians to end their centuries long imperialist campaign to conquer them?

What did the mathematical logician Kurt Godel say? "All generalizations, with the possible exception of this one, are false."

It's ,broadly speaking, not political correctness that leads analysts to dismiss sloppy generalizations like yours. Most Chechen separatists, historically speaking, have more in common with South Irish Catholic separatists than they do Osama Bin Laden. I remember watching a boring and generic documentary by that guy from "Supersize me", it was called something like "Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden?". He asked an old Afghan man where he thought Osama Bin Laden was, he turned to a younger man and asked in Pashtun, "who's Osama Bin laden" the younger man replied, "He's that guy who knocked the American's buildings down", the old man replied "Well f*** Osama Bin Laden and f*** America".

Muslims are not monolithic. Muslim societies are not monolithic. Different Muslims and different Muslim societies have different political goals and motivating forces. Different Muslim terrorist groups have different goals and motivations.

Osama Bin Laden is a follower of Seyyed Qutb and believes in his general vision, to liberate men from tyranny (which Qutb defined as being subjugated to any law implemented by another man, only God was sovereign, only he could decree laws that men could legitimately be subject to, and any man ruling another implementing any law other than God's law is blasphemy). Dudayev, the first President of Chechnya after Yeltsin allowed former states under Russian rule to "grab" autonomy, obviously did not even almost share Qutb's vision of the world. Neither have most Chechen leaders and warlords. Some of them want an Islamically run state, some are pure nationalists who just want a secular modern government, some are gangsters, some are Al-Queda and see themselves as fighting on merely one front of a global Jihad against various infidel powers.

Even in the small spectrum of separatist movements in Chechnya you have significant differences of goals. You also have vast differences in motivations. Amongst the Chechens you also have a wide spectrum. Is a given Chechen fighter fighting with whatever group he is with because of pure ideological motivation? For money? Or because some drunk Russian soldier raped his sister?

That's not political correctness, it is cold, objective, fact based observation.

This is like the narrative of a united communist order that cased numerous Western Policy Makers to pursue destructive policies. It cased them to pay inordinate attention to organic nationalist movements whose only real connection to communism was its expediency in getting them aid from the Soviet Union and supplying them with an established and respected reservoir of political metaphors and the like. If you treat Chechen separatists like Al-Queda, simply by virtue of the fact that both are made up of Muslims and use a loosely similar reservoir of Islamic metaphors that are culturally familiar to the larger populace they want to foster sympathy with, then you are going to have a very warped view of the world and make serious strategic blunders. Chechen separatism is both not a threat to us and probably a movement we should probably generally and vaguely have sympathy with. Al-Queda is a serious enemy capable of causing serious, though not existential, damage to us and our allies. If we do something stupid, like buy into the Russian claim that they are fighting the same enemy we are and they are holding back the "green wave" (this being a recycling of their tsarist era claim of being Europe's bulwark against the 'yellow wave'), and treat organic Chechen separatism like we do Al-Queda we are going to end up helping Al-Queda. We not only allow the Russian to continue their imperialist motivated atrocities, we give Al-Queda a great opening to bring Chechen movements into their orbit (and this is happening, Al-Queda get's to say "see, the US is at war with Islam, why else eould they side with the Christian Russians against you?" despite what the truth is it gives Al-Queda wonderful propaganda).

Edited January 1, 2010 by Hassan