Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1262402604' post='2028318'] Yup It is not morally permissable to kill an abortionist. [/quote] You've failed to say why. What is the Magisterial foundation for your view? ~Sternhauser
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1262402987' post='2028326'] Because my personal view is absolutely immaterial to the objective status of whether the killing of an abortionist is moral or not. ~Sternhauser [/quote] But you came in here looking for personal views.
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1262403103' post='2028329'] You've failed to say why. What is the Magisterial foundation for your view? ~Sternhauser [/quote] I wouldn't answer him, Ja[i]i[/i]me. It's none of his business.
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1262403103' post='2028329'] You've failed to say why. What is the Magisterial foundation for your view? ~Sternhauser [/quote] see above
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1262403086' post='2028328'] Unless your personal view goes against Church teaching [/quote] [b]2258 [/b]"[i]Human life is sacred[/i] because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an [i][b]innocent [/b][/i]human being." I think you're missing a key word, Jaim.e. I've bolded and italicized it. ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1262403125' post='2028330'] But you came in here looking for personal views. [/quote] I came in here asking for a justification of objective claims that were made. ~Sternhauser
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 I believe that your answer is "yes" to my question, Stern.
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1262403427' post='2028336'] I believe that your answer is "yes" to my question, Stern. [/quote] And that, HisChildForever, is one of the many reasons I decline to make statements on such issues. Because many people have proven themselves incapable of interpreting words and coming to proper conclusions based thereon. ~Sternhauser
CatherineM Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 I'm confused by all this. Is the guy who said it wasn't morally permissible to be in the US military now saying that it is permissible to kill an abortionist? I remember now why I put him on ignore.
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1262403214' post='2028334'] [b]2258 [/b]"[i]Human life is sacred[/i] because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an [i][b]innocent [/b][/i]human being." I think you're missing a key word, Jaim.e. I've bolded and italicized it. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Well I'm just getting warmed up. [quote][b][url="javascript:openWindow("]2268[/url][/b] The fifth commandment forbids [i]direct and intentional killing[/i]as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily inmurder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.[sup]69[/sup] Infanticide,[sup]70[/sup] fratricide, parricide,and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of thenatural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public healthcannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority. [/quote]
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1262403551' post='2028338'] And that, HisChildForever, is one of the many reasons I decline to make statements on such issues. Because many people have proven themselves incapable of interpreting words and coming to proper conclusions based thereon. ~Sternhauser [/quote] I asked you for a simple "yes" or "no" answer. The fact that you told me the answer was none of my business suggests that your answer is not a very favorable one.
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='CatherineM' date='01 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1262403554' post='2028339'] I'm confused by all this. Is the guy who said it wasn't morally permissible to be in the US military [i]and retracted that statement [/i]is now saying that it is permissible to kill an abortionist? I remember now why I put him on ignore. [/quote] Corrections in[i] italics. [/i] ~Sternhauser
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1262403615' post='2028340'] Well I'm just getting warmed up. [b]2268[/b] The fifth commandment forbids [i]direct and intentional killing[/i] as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.[sup]69[/sup] Infanticide,[sup]70[/sup] fratricide, parricide,and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority. [/quote] You're getting warmer. But St. Thomas still seems to disagree with the Catechism, in any case. Which is correct? Now: is execution, which the Church has traditionally permitted, an act of direct and intentional killing? Why or why not? ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1262403774' post='2028344'] You're getting warmer. Now, is execution, which the Church has traditionally permitted, an act of direct and intentional killing? Why or why not? ~Sternhauser [/quote] Getting warmer to what, the question you refuse to answer? Edited January 2, 2010 by HisChildForever
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1262403655' post='2028342'] I asked you for a simple "yes" or "no" answer. The fact that you told me the answer was none of my business suggests that your answer is not a very favorable one. [/quote] Ibid. ~Sternhauser
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1262403774' post='2028344'] You're getting warmer. Now, is execution, which the Church has traditionally permitted, an act of direct and intentional killing? Why or why not? ~Sternhauser [/quote] Man you are so heading down the wrong path. [quote][font="Times"][size="3"]The Holy See has consistently sought theabolition of the death penalty and his Holiness Pope John Paul II haspersonally and indiscriminately appealed on numerous occasions in orderthat such sentences should be commuted to a lesser punishment, whichmay offer time and incentive for the reform of the guilty, hope to theinnocent and safeguard the well-being of civil society itself and ofthose individuals who through no choice of theirs have become deeplyinvolved in the fate of those condemmed to death.[/size][/font][/quote] [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html"]DECLARATION OF THE HOLY SEE TO THE FIRST WORLD CONGRESS ON THE DEATH PENALTY[/url] You want to keep going? You're just painting yourself in a corner
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 I am just disturbed by the fact that Stern would kill an abortionist.
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 I was going to jump in on another point. But let's let Stern show the other phorum members the error of his ways. BTW Stern. If and when an execution can be permissable according to the Church (now or 100 years ago) Who gets the permission?
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1262404098' post='2028352'] Man you are so heading down the wrong path. [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html"]DECLARATION OF THE HOLY SEE TO THE FIRST WORLD CONGRESS ON THE DEATH PENALTY[/url] You want to keep going? You're just painting yourself in a corner [/quote] Are you suggesting that the Church Fathers, the Popes, the Bishops, the whole Magisterium of the Catholic Church has been wrong about the intrinsic nature of the death penalty for the past 2000 years? ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser
Hassan Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1262404148' post='2028353'] I am just disturbed by the fact that Stern would kill an abortionist. [/quote] Very clever. I'm sure Sternhouser, being so dimwitted and slow, will never see through that profoundly nontransparent and just ultra-sneaky ploy.
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