Teaching Muslim Children To Hate The Jews

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]No. He is trying to "imply" something. You are trying to "infer" something. Impliers send information and then receivers "infer" from it. Infer and imply are not interchangeable. See the difference?[/quote]

Typo, please relax a bit.

No one said there wasn't any beauty in Islam. I'd love to see the blue mosque in Istanbul, though admittedly after I see Hagia Sophia. I've said a few times now, I was providing a historical criticism of the formation of Islam and how it inadvertently results in a systematic sort of violence. It really doesn't have anything to do with your philosophical or cultural appreciation of Islamdom.

[MIKolbe]

[quote]I've said a few times now, I was providing a historical criticism of the formation of Islam and how it inadvertently results in a systematic sort of violence.[/quote]

Can you explain this further, please? More specifically the inadvertenticism....

[KeenanParkerII]

Surely,

As I'm sure you know, Muhammad received his revelations over a long period of time. The "dispensation" changed over time, beginning with short spiritual messages and becoming more legalistic over time. A lot of the time it was based on nucleated narratives, reciting bits of stories here and bits of culture there, some of which was based on Bedouin tradition and some of which was based on Christian or Jewish tradition from Syria. The continuity of the message was again interrupted by personal revelations concerning Muhammad's personal life. So, when Uthman compiled the Qur'anic canon under the council of four, the end product was contradictory on some counts, negated in places, and was occasionally inconsistent.

We don't know exactly when, but in order that the Qur'an be recognized as divine there developed a necessary understanding that God's dispensation can change; today he blesses the battle of Badr, tmr he denies it. Such is his will. Otherwise the dispensation is invalid. So, chronological interpretation of the Qur'an is very important. Perhaps early on in the dispensation, during a particularly militant phase of expansion, Allah justified the killing of non-Muslims. Then later Allah rejects such killing, such as here: ‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’ Then let us assume later still that Allah once again justifies killing non-muslims. The last dispensation takes precedence and renders the previous null and void.

What arises from this is a systematic problem of interpretation, not that it is impossible, but problematic. Anything less than an exhaustive and absolute study of all the interpretations of the Qur'an, which all the various Muslim groups must accept, will result in fragmentation and the development of militant groups intent on their own interpretation. In short, they do not have a magisterium. Imagine the Protestant Church if you will, each with its own interpretation, but with a religious dispensation closer to that of the Old Testament and, specifically, a problematic system of interpretation. Of course, I don't think Muhammad had this in mind, but he didn't appoint any system of leadership, so it's an inadvertent development.

Edited February 20, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[MIKolbe]

that makes more sense...

in your previous statement it read (to me) as if the violence itself was inadvertent. Which I doubt...

I think many a muslim would really really advertently want to do violence.

[KeenanParkerII]

Oh, yeah, there are definitely some pretty explicit calls to violence in the Qur'an! Culturally, interpretatively, systematically, I don't think Islam is reconcilable with peace, unless of course everything is Muslim.

[Nihil Obstat]

Your perspective is fascinating. Where did you say you've studied?

[OraProMe]

Oh come on HCF, not this again. Catholics basically invented the jewish ghetto so we're in no position to make broad, inaccurate generalizations.

[MIKolbe]

Ora...it's HCF.... come on!

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='20 February 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1266712686' post='2060123']
Oh come on HCF, not this again.
[/quote]

You should be respectful towards HCF. She is a woman, after all.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='20 February 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1266705515' post='2060072']
Beauty in Islam:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Lilllabettt/BlueMosque4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Lilllabettt/interior-c-damon-lynch.jpg[/img][/quote]
As a Byzantine Christian I must say that I find a lot of your comments offensive. By the way, the Blue Mosque is a copy of the Church architecture of the Byzantines.

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='20 February 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1266705515' post='2060072']
If you do not see [u]any [/u]beauty in Islam, then you are not looking.[/quote]
I find nothing beautiful in falsehood. Islam is a vile religion, which has deceived millions (or to be more precise . . . billions) of people.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Apotheoun

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='20 February 2010 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='1266714180' post='2060137']
You should be respectful towards HCF. She is a woman, after all.
[/quote]

You should remember that you're a 16 year old kid and not carry a personal vendetta over from another thread.