To Slap Or Not To Slap?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Desecrating the Eucharist is a grave offense, and certainly should not be allowed, or even passively overlooked.

That said, based my specific cultural upbringing, I wish that the priest could have delivered his strong message without the slap. The priest's actions of dragging the young man out of church, and shouting "blasphemer" delivered a very strong message, in and of itself, to both the young man, and to the rest of congregation of the seriousness of this offense. Personally, I try to avoid actions such as slapping, if at all possible. But, I also know and understand why others have a different view.

However, as HCF said, I wish we had more information. I might feel differently if I knew more about the specific circumstances. For example, I wish I knew how old the young man was, and whether he had a previous history with this priest or this congregation of desecrating the Eucharist. I wouldn't say a slap was never appropriate, just that my personal preference would be to avoid it, if possible.

For example, we don't know the age of the young man. Certainly, if he is a minor and lives at home, the priest should involve the young man's parents. But, if the young man in question is old enough to be considered an adult, and the young man has no one in authority to supervise him, the slap could have been necessary in this specific case to strengthen the priest's message.

Also, we don't know anything about the young man's "history," such as whether he has done this before, and whether or not the priest has had previous contact or bad experiences with this young man.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't know enough about the rules of the Church to know whether the priest has the authority to deny the Eucharist to the young man in the future, until the priest has spoken with him, and the young man has repented of his behavior. And, unfortunately in this case, the young man is free to attend another church.

Also, we don't know about the culture in this particular community. It may well be that a slap might be an accepted (and even expected) action by the priest in that particular community. I don't know what is standard behavior in Spain, or in this specific community in Spain.

So, although my own preference is to avoid physical actions such as a slap, it may be that the slap was exacty the right thing for the priest to do in this specific case. If this happened in the U.S., I would be more hesitant about the priest using physical actions, but without knowing the values of the specific community, and the age and "history" of the young man, I can't make a definitive statement either way.

The reason I would hope that any adult, but particularly a priest, would avoid physical actions, is that the priest is a role model for his congregation, and even to others outside his parish. The priest's slap could result in reasoning by someone else that, if a priest is allowed to slap someone in anger or frustration, then it is acceptable for any adult to slap anyone, child or adult, who makes them angry or frustrated. The person who resorts to slapping someone else in anger might temporarily forget the grave circumstances that caused the priest to slap the young man, or might not know, for example, whether or not the priest might have had a long history of dealings with the young man, and the slap was the result, not only of the young man's actions that day, but of previous encounters, as well.

The article certainly brings up an interesting (and very important) issue. But, I do wish we had more information.

Edited September 7, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Johnny]

I think it's appropriate in this situation. I'm reminded of the time that Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple with a whip. Jesus saw men desecrating the temple by conducting business out of it, thus making "the house of God into a den of thieves."

[Semper Catholic]

Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.

[dUSt]

This thread needs Slappo.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1283897136' post='2169339']
Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.
[/quote]

If my child [i]intentionally[/i] blasphemes and desecrates our Eucharistic Lord I would thank the priest for his intercession if he slapped him and dragged from the church.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1283896528' post='2169333']
I can think of a situation where I would slap a priest. If he made a pass at me, I'd slap him like only a Southern Belle can slap. I have never had that situation happen by the way.
[/quote]

If a priest made a pass at me, I'd still try to avoid slapping. (I can deliver a pretty effective verbal "slap.") But, I would immediately report the priest. However, I might slap the priest, even if it went against my instincts, if I thought it would strengthen the case that the "pass" had not been initiated by me, and was very unwelcome. Unfortunately, since it would probably come down to my word against the priest's, if I slapped the priest, it would be much harder for him to argue that I had encouraged or welcomed his behavior.

I also have never faced that situation with a priest, but, then again, I have also had little one-on-one contact with a priest or pastor of any denomination.

One good thing about my former employer was that, even before the stronger federal rules on sexual harassment came into effect, my employer had very strict standards about what was considered inappropriate behavior in the workplace. And, when the stronger federal rules did come into effect, my employer's standards became even more explicit. Both women and men treated each other with respect, and one thing that I especially appreciated was that, for most of my co-workers, mutual respect came naturally, and they would have behaved appropriately, even without the federal rules and my employer's standards. However, since I worked for a human resources consulting firm, I heard of all too many workplaces where that was not the case.

Edited September 7, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Selah]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1283897136' post='2169339']
Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.
[/quote]

beaver dam right!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1283898092' post='2169344']
If my child [i]intentionally[/i] blasphemes and desecrates our Eucharistic Lord I would thank the priest for his intercession if he slapped him and dragged from the church.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[dUSt]

This reminds me of what I am telling my daughter's teachers tonight when I attend Jr High open house. I'm going to tell them that if they see her looking at, talking to our walking within a 5 ft radius of any boy, to slap her, and send her to the office.

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1283899740' post='2169354']
This reminds me of what I am telling my daughter's teachers tonight when I attend Jr High open house. I'm going to tell them that if they see her looking at, talking to our walking within a 5 ft radius of any boy, to slap her, and send her to the office.
[/quote]
How old is your daughter?

[Slappo]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1283897136' post='2169339']
Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.
[/quote]


[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1283899417' post='2169352']
beaver dam right!
[/quote]

Yeah...

And then you'll go to confession to the same priest right after hitting him?

[Slappo]

It is the priest's duty to educate the faithful and uphold the teachings of the Church.

People fell dead lying to St. Peter. For desecration of the Eucharist this guy got off light.

May his penance be heavy, and may God grant him many years to practice additional penance and mortification.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1283899740' post='2169354']
This reminds me of what I am telling my daughter's teachers tonight when I attend Jr High open house. I'm going to tell them that if they see her looking at, talking to our walking within a 5 ft radius of any boy, to slap her, and send her to the office.
[/quote]
:writes down notes:

[Jaime]

I can't believe I'm the only waffler here


I guess I can

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1283897136' post='2169339']
Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.
[/quote]
One of my kids ever does that to the Eucharist, they'd be begging for a fate as easy as being slapped and dragged about.

It's great that the priest did that. It's time to quit taking this bullspit sitting down.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1283901681' post='2169366']
I can't believe I'm the only waffler here


I guess I can
[/quote]


you're such a hippie...

srsly.. you're like 1/2 french aren't you?

no offense to the french...

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1283897136' post='2169339']
Priest does that to one of my kids he'll be getting some of his own medicine from me.
[/quote]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1283898092' post='2169344']
If my child [i]intentionally[/i] blasphemes and desecrates our Eucharistic Lord I would thank the priest for his intercession if he slapped him and dragged from the church.
[/quote]

I can't speak from experience, since I have never been a parent, but I think I would have trouble with any adult, even a priest, slapping my child. However, it would depend a lot on how old the child was, and obviously, these are particularly grave circumstances. Still, if the "offender" is a minor, absent other information, I think it is ultimately the parents' role to discipline their children. Although I would be mortified and extremely angry if my child desecrated the Eucharist, and I would expect (and want) the Priest to take action to stop the behavior, I'd still prefer it was handled short of slapping a child, and after the fact, something handled by the parents, priest, and child working together to prevent a repetition of that behavior. In a case of desecrating the Eucharist, and depending on the age of the child, I would be almost as angry at the parents for abrogating their responsibilities as I would be at the child.

As I posted before, I have a basic problem with an adult, such as a priest, who is a role model for his congregation, and for the larger community, using physical force, particularly against a minor. Even if it was the right response for that specific child, in that specific circumstance, because the priest is a role model, like it or not, he has to be especially careful because his behavior could easily be misinterpreted. For example, others, who might not know anything of the specific situation, might come away with the idea that slapping someone else's child is an appropriate response to a much less serious offense. And, for me personally, I would expect a priest to be mature enough to have learned ways to express his anger about the gravity of the offense, without resorting to slapping someone, of any age, unless, of course, the priest was in physical danger. Also, if a priest slapped a minor in public, I think it would be realistic for me to worry what the priest might do in private with my own child.

But, obviously there are legitimate exceptions, and I am speaking theoretically. Maybe it's because I have no children of my own that I am especially careful. My first response is always that, absent other information, and depending on the circumstances, since I am not the child's parent, the behavior of a minor is untimately the responsibility of the parents. For example, when I used to volunteer at the zoo as a docent/guide, if I saw a child misbehaving, unless the child was in imminent physical danger, if the parents were nearby, I would prefer to speak to the parents before speaking to the child

Edited September 7, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1283901681' post='2169366']
I can't believe I'm the only waffler here


I guess I can
[/quote]

How come you voted for that option? Just curious lol.

[IrishSalesian]

I think also we should take culture into account. This did after all take place in Spain, Valencia no less.

[Micah]

Slap him right in the faceee. St. Peter probably would have cut his ear off if he had the chance. 0_o (but seriously I hope this young person starts to understand the seriousness of the situation)