To Slap Or Not To Slap?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1283910688' post='2169503']
Christ whipped people for similar offenses. Good night.
[/quote]

Jesus drove people out of the temple (who had no right to be there) with violence. Christ's violence was intended to drive the moneychangers out, and if He upheld a truth at the same time, it was not by [i]means[/i] of the violence.

~Sternhauser

[Slappo]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1283915508' post='2169564']
Boy, that priest should have slapped that boy until he [i]acknowledged[/i] that he had done wrong. Over and over again. A million slaps, yea, even a million [i]lashes[/i] wouldn't be able to punish the boy for what he did, or force him to acknowledge that what he did was wrong, but that priest sure should have [i]tried[/i]. Perhaps he should have even called down fire from heaven upon the young blasphemer's house. Because that's how souls are saved.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

I am glad that you recognize that the destruction of Soddom and Gommorah was done out of love and for the sake of the souls of those who dwelt there.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' timestamp='1283902725' post='2169381']
I think also we should take culture into account. This did after all take place in Spain, Valencia no less.
[/quote]
Can you give more context than that? I mean, I realize it's a different culture than here, but what exactly do you mean by that statement?

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1283907596' post='2169453']
I may be psychic, but not *that* psychic.

Well I dunno. Seems to me that if you have a kid who's going to pull something like that, you should have him on a darn tight leash, and be slapping a bit of sense into him before the priest even gets his chance.
[/quote]
Agreed. It seems that the parents haven't gotten through to this guy and if a priest can't use his authority in spiritual matters, does that mean also that a police officer or judge or what have you should not be allowed to exercise their authority in civil matters, merely because the parents would prefer to be the ones to discipline?

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1283912299' post='2169526']
In all seriousness, if another adult disciplines my child, instead of me... good.

I would like to think that I raised my children well enough so they would never need to be disciplined, but if they step out of line, I [b]want[/b] other adults to exercise their "adultness", and discipline a child. I was raised to respect elders, and I raise my children the same way.

I am also realistic, so know that I will not be around my kids every minute of their lives. I can only pray that there will be other adults around who are not afraid to discipline my kids--because kids need discipline. I make it a point to let my kid's friend's parents know that I expect them to be just as harsh on my child as they are their own. If slapping or spanking is justified, be my guest... actually, please do. I also make it clear to my kids that they should expect to be disciplined by other adults--so they know the consequences of their actions.

I ain't raising no punks.
[/quote]
You are the sort of parent I would have liked to work for when I used to babysit! One family, with 7 kids, I had next to no real problems with, because the kids knew that I had full authority and what I said was law. Then there was the little brat who locked me out of his house, and never got in trouble for anything, and I couldn't do anything to make him behave, because his parents wouldn't enforce any sort of rules on him...I only babysat him twice.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote]

A Catholic priest in Spain’s province of Valencia slapped a young man in a church in the town of Rótova during a local festival on the evening of September 5. Believing that the young man had discarded a communion wafer, which the Catholic faith teaches is truly the body and blood of Jesus Christ under the mere appearance of bread, Rev. Victor Jimeno then threw him out of the church while denouncing him as a “blasphemer.” The victim, however, returned the blow. A local politician has called upon the priest, as well as the young man and his parents, to meet on September 7 to discuss the matter.

According to statements made by the priest, the young man may actually be innocent and is taking the blame for a friend who actually did commit the deed. The priest spoke to the parents of the young man, who has taken to bed in an apparent fit of pique. Said Rev. Jimeno, “Rótova is a small town, a big family, and we don’t want the news to go further,” while he hopes that the town will not become the butt of jokes. While he recognized that it was indeed members of his own congregation who committed the outrage, the priest says he wants to promote reconciliation and peace.

A friend of the young man who was assaulted by the priest explained that his friend is very upset and unrepentant. The friend explained that the young man threw the communion wafer to the floor during a fit of choking.[/quote]

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=124&id=39285&t=Spanish+priest+strikes+parishioner+for+blasphemy

This was linked from the article Red posted.

I'm not sure I buy the young man's story. It seems like "a fit of choking" would be pretty obvious.

[Slappo]

Also... to THROW a communion wafer to the ground while choking would still be an intentional act.

To drop it would be another matter... but "throw" does not bring to mind a picture of a wafer softly sliding out of a choking man's hand.

[Norseman82]

Well, in the tradition I come from, the parents would have hit the kid twice as hard when he got home.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1283916209' post='2169571']
I am glad that you recognize that the destruction of Soddom and Gommorah was done out of love and for the sake of the souls of those who dwelt there.
[/quote]

Who said it was for the sake of the souls of the people who lived there? Are you unwilling to believe that God wasn't destroying those cities to prevent the spread of their contagion?

As it is, I can see that the people might very well have been destroyed for the good of their souls: had they been allowed by their Creator to continue to pile sin upon sin on themselves, they would have ended up in a worse state in hell than they [i]already[/i] would have been, so certainly, I can see it as a merciful act.

Bottom line: God didn't force them to accept Him by means of violence. He didn't terrorize them for the sake of their conversions. He killed them. Period.

~Sternhauser

Edited September 8, 2010 by Sternhauser

[IcePrincessKRS]

I've been looking around and I found a couple more sources that say the guy actually took the Eucharist out of his mouth and broke it up in front of the priest.

I used google translator for this page but it was rough. It sounds, though, like the desecration was quite deliberate.
http://www.levante-emv.com/comarcas/2010/09/06/cura-rotova-lia-tortazos-festero-rompio-hostia-altar/736603.html

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Like I said, beat the croutons out of the guy for being so nasty deliberatley

[Jaime]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1283919989' post='2169590']
JMJ
Like I said, beat the croutons out of the guy for being so nasty deliberatley
[/quote]

How do you start a post like this with JMJ? I honestly don't get it

[Paddington]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1283919475' post='2169588']http://www.levante-emv.com/comarcas/2010/09/06/cura-rotova-lia-tortazos-festero-rompio-hostia-altar/736603.html[/quote]

Here is what I got from it (and then two other links on that page.)

First off, no article mentions the younging's age or his family's reaction.


Saturday...the younging took the Host from his mouth and broke it in front of the priest.
The priest immediately slapped him.
He returned the favor with a slap (although the word could mean just "surprise attack." I doubt it.)
Fight ended with a kick to the younging's butt and he was gone.
Younging is in the party commission for last weekend's town festival.
The whole group got booted out with him. *shrug*
It was "blasphemers." Plural.
The priest then asked the parish to forgive his attitude.
Everybody in town is in shock.
The mayor confirms the story and downplays the importance of the ruckus.
Mayor: "the priest is doing so poorly, he is close to being hospitalized."
Younging's friends say younging is hurt.
The party went on all weekend, although people can't stop talking about the ruckus.
A different priest celebrated Sunday's Mass.


Other article...
Hours after the ruckus, some youngings make a parody of what happened in church. Street theater style. Everything else about the weekend festivities went as planned. (Music, fireworks, and stuff.)
People don't know what to make of the ruckus and nobody interviewed would say anything bad about the priest or the younging.
One lady said the priest is good and then something about "the boy isn't the type to look for problems." and "if the priest did it to somebody else, it would've been worse." and "we can't explain what happened."
The youth is a good photographer and has submitted nice pictures for the festival's use.


Other article...
The priest says the incident is affecting him much and he is very sad.
"I went all night without sleep, crying and praying."
He lost reason in front of the younging's attitude.
The priest doesn't think a non-Christian can understand. He likens it to somebody throwing the plate to the floor and insulting your mom after she cooks dinner for that person in her home. "It's the worst thing you can do to a believer," adds the priest.
There is a story circulated by some that the boy put the Host in his pocket, but the priest denies that and has witnesses for the main story about breaking the Host.
The priest asks forgiveness from "the youth, his family and everybody."
The priest went to Confession and rested away from the party with anxiety and depression.
In the festival's book (booklet I guess) there are words from the priest (written before all this) and I guess they are in Valencian.
He asks for St. Bartholomew to protect his flock. (The parish is St. Bartholomew's.) I don't understand the rest of it.
This message from the priest is quoted and ends the article.

[Sternhauser]

Both Peter and this priest came to the understanding that they should not have taken the sword in an attempt to defend Christ Himself. Good.

~Sternhauser

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1283925458' post='2169632']
How do you start a post like this with JMJ? I honestly don't get it
[/quote]


JMJ
I start a post with JMJ when I am talking about my irritation with how someone would act with Our Lord. I know you are a waffler, and don't care, but it's ok, I'll pray for you.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1283955881' post='2169866']
JMJ
I start a post with JMJ when I am talking about my irritation with how someone would act with Our Lord. I know you are a waffler, and don't care, but it's ok, I'll pray for you.
[/quote]

No I don't know how you consistently start a comment with JMJ and then make a statement in a manner that Jesus Mary or Joseph would never say so coarsely.


That's what I don't get.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1283955881' post='2169866']
JMJ
I start a post with JMJ when I am talking about my irritation with how someone would act with Our Lord. I know you are a waffler, and don't care, but it's ok, I'll pray for you.
[/quote]

Owwwww, not nice.

Jesus was not in favor of beating people up. He wouldn't even let St. Peter defend him with violence.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1283956365' post='2169873']
No I don't know how you consistently start a comment with JMJ and then make a statement in a manner that Jesus Mary or Joseph would never say so coarsely.


That's what I don't get.
[/quote]


JMJ
I don't know how you consistently try to start arguements over things that no one else comments about, and still got a church scholar badge

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1283956365' post='2169873']
No I don't know how you consistently start a comment with JMJ and then make a statement in a manner that Jesus Mary or Joseph would never say so coarsely.


That's what I don't get.
[/quote]

oops. double. Maggie, I am expressing frustration. It's called metaphorical speaking. Imagine watching something like that, and tell me how it makes you fell when someone dumps the Host on the ground.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Tridenteen

[Jaime]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1283956598' post='2169875']
JMJ
I don't know how you consistently try to start arguements over things that no one else comments about, and still got a church scholar badge
[/quote]

I'm not arguing. I literally don't understand the process Tridenteen. You are asking for the guidance and the blessing of the Holy Family on what you write. The hope of MOST people who start their comments or letters with JMJ is that they write in a manner that the Holy Family will be supportive of, then you write "beat the croutons out of the guy"

Its disrespectful to the Holy Family Trid. And honestly, its truly offensive to see. Do you actually believe that Jesus Mary and Joseph would agree to "beat the croutons out of the guy"? Visitors to the site see this. I don't have a problem with you wanting to beat the croutons out of the guy. I have a problem with someone being rude and doing it in the name of the Holy Family.

And do you think I should wait until other people are commenting on your offensive behavior before I say something? Sorry. That ain't gonna happen


I have a tag because I've got a degree in Theology.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][b][url="http://drbo.org/chapter/50018.htm"]John 18:10-11[/url][/b]
Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it, and struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And the name of the servant was Malchus. Jesus therefore said to Peter:[color="#FF0000"] Put up thy sword into the scabbard. The chalice which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?[/color][/quote][quote][b][url="http://drbo.org/chapter/50018.htm"]Matthew 26:49-55[/url][/b]
And forthwith coming to Jesus, he said: Hail, Rabbi. And he kissed him.

And Jesus said to him:[color="#FF0000"] Friend, whereto art thou come?[/color] Then they came up, and laid hands on Jesus, and held him.

And behold one of them that were with Jesus, stretching forth his hand, drew out his sword: and striking the servant of the high priest, cut off his ear. Then Jesus saith to him: [color="#FF0000"]Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot ask my Father, and he will give me presently more than twelve legions of angels? How then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that so it must be done?[/color] In that same hour Jesus said to the multitudes: [color="#FF0000"]You are come out as it were to a robber with swords and clubs to apprehend me. I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you laid not hands on me.[/color][/quote][quote][b][url="http://drbo.org/chapter/49022.htm"]Luke 22:49-51[/url][/b]
And they that were about him, seeing what would follow, said to him: Lord, shall we strike with the sword? And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.

But Jesus answering, said: [color="#FF0000"]Suffer ye thus far.[/color] And when he had touched his ear, he healed him.[/quote]People defaming our faith, moreover committing perceived sacrilege against that same faith, is extremely sensitive and emotional. Just as much as our Blessed Lord's disciples were prepared to fight for Him, to inflict pain on those who were His enemies and planning Him harm, He rebuked them. In fact, He healed the servant who was attacked. If we believe that Jesus was aware of what was happening, He surely knew this was just the start of a long walk... If we truly believe in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar, I think it behooves us to realize that God doesn't need protection and this is the life that He chose out of love for us... A prisoner of our Altars to be our sacrifice and communion.

If I believe it is the same God-man written in the Gospels in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar, I would have to imagine Him rebuking this Priest and comforting that young man. People are going to commit sacrilege... moreover against this most august Sacrament. We should do something, but it stops where universal Christian peace, love, and charity stops. That includes those who disagree with us, are our enemies, and persecute us. In my opinion, the love and peace of Christianity needs to insure that it is never like that of the Roman Empire, at the end of a sword their way. We must be the bearers and guardians of a truer peace and love...

That means sometimes we lose the battle, and sometimes that even means we lose our lives...

I don't see that in what this Priest did. But I can forgive him, because it is such a sensitive and emotional matter.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Mr Cat

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
oops, I bit the bait. I hate it when that happens. God bless!