Nihil Obstat Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [img]http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/099/379/original/1297536534786.jpg[/img] [spoiler][img]http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/106/133/original/4210_e4ad.gif[/img][/spoiler]
Lil Red Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303193447' post='2230100'] I think you need to rethink why you think that. [/quote] what?
Nihil Obstat Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1303193905' post='2230103'] what? [/quote] [img]http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/098/410/original/1297321717120.gif[/img]
Nihil Obstat Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1303193879' post='2230102'] [img]http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/106/133/original/4210_e4ad.gif[/img] [/quote] [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1303193928' post='2230104'] [img]http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/098/410/original/1297321717120.gif[/img] [/quote] By the way, these would also not be appropriate during Mass.
Lil Red Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [img]http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/18cb5506-b41d-4a1a-b4af-5bca80676cb1.jpg[/img]
dUSt Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Clapping has different meanings. Obviously, clapping for human achievement or for a performance is innappropriate during mass. But, I don't think all clapping falls into that category. For example, the clapping that occured during JP2's funeral mass--it is custom for there to be clapping at Italian funerals. Bishops who ask for applause for newly ordained priests at ordination masses... Clapping during B16's masses when he came to the United States..... he did not tell people to stop clapping. I'm not advocating that clapping should occur at mass. I'm just saying it is not so black and white in all cases. Prudential judgement comes into play. Nihil, your posting of pictures when you don't feel like continuing a discussion gets really old really fast.
Lil Red Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303194325' post='2230108'] Clapping has different meanings. Obviously, clapping for human achievement or for a performance is innappropriate during mass. But, I don't think all clapping falls into that category. For example, the clapping that occured during JP2's funeral mass--it is custom for there to be clapping at Italian funerals. Clapping during B16's masses when he came to the United States..... he did not tell people to stop clapping. I'm not advocating that clapping should occur at mass. I'm just saying it is not so black and white in all cases. Prudential judgement comes into play. [/quote] i can see your example dUSt, when people were so relieved to have a priest that cared enough to preach it - how relieved a person might be that he just starts clapping because he is so happy.
Nihil Obstat Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303194325' post='2230108'] Nihil, your posting of pictures when you don't feel like continuing a discussion gets really old really fast. [/quote] You're quite able to split the thread.
Laudate_Dominum Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 To my sensibilities clapping during the Mass is in the same category as talking during Mass. I once went to a parish in which people would shout out intentions during the prayers of the faithful and during the homily the priest would often ask questions and pass around the mic. It struck me as pretty odd. But what is clapping? Is it properly analogous to speech? It is definitely a form of communication. It is primarily communicated by sound but also with a visual element and dimension of body language. Often Mass clapping that I've experienced has including hoots and hollers now that I think about it. I guess I would say that as a general rule "rounds of applause" are inappropriate during the liturgy. There are definitely instances of this that are less objectionable than others. For example, clapping in response to some significant news during the homily is different than a hoopla round of applause for the band following Communion (a real-life example that comes to mind). I am having a hard time thinking of scenarios in which clapping is clearly okay but I'm inclined to say it is possible.
Lil Red Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1303197264' post='2230113'] I guess I would say that as a general rule "rounds of applause" are inappropriate during the liturgy. [/quote] "How about those ushers, folks? Didn't they do a great job ushering you in today?" "And extraordinary eucharistic ministers! Didn't they just do a bang-up job delivering Jesus to you?" "Don't forget the lectors! Woo-eeee! Boy, they just inspired me with their rendition of God's Word today!" sorry, i have an over-active imagination when it's late.
Laudate_Dominum Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1303197573' post='2230115'] "How about those ushers, folks? Didn't they do a great job ushering you in today?" "And extraordinary eucharistic ministers! Didn't they just do a bang-up job delivering Jesus to you?" "Don't forget the lectors! Woo-eeee! Boy, they just inspired me with their rendition of God's Word today!" sorry, i have an over-active imagination when it's late. [/quote] Haha. Yeah. Let's give it up for the cast of thousands! That's what I think of too when this topic comes up.
Papist Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) [font="Arial"][size="2"][quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303193277'post='2230098'] I do remember one time where I actually did clap in mass. It wasn't for humanachievement. It was after a homily. The parish I was attending was having a lotof issues with a liberal priest and liturgical abuses, etc. Well, a new priestcame in. In one of his first homilies, he just totally went hardcore aboutending the liturgical abuses, promoting confession, starting adoration at theparish, etc. After the homily, the congregation started clapping--me included.I don't think it was innapropriate at that moment. I don't think we were reallypraising any human achievement, but showing support and agreement with thethings he said needed to be done. [/quote] Even though acknowledging the priest's great homily maybe warranted, it would still inappropriate to within the Mass. Focus belongs only on Jesus Christ on the altar. Displaying your appreciation during Mass via clapping pulls your attention away from our Lord and the altar and goes toward the priest. I suggest refrain from clapping, then after Mass in the Narthex tell him how you appreciated the homily. Priests need our personal affirmation when they do good.[/size][/font] Edited April 19, 2011 by Papist
Brother Adam Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303194325' post='2230108'] Clapping has different meanings. Obviously, clapping for human achievement or for a performance is innappropriate during mass. But, I don't think all clapping falls into that category. For example, the clapping that occured during JP2's funeral mass--it is custom for there to be clapping at Italian funerals. Bishops who ask for applause for newly ordained priests at ordination masses... Clapping during B16's masses when he came to the United States..... he did not tell people to stop clapping. I'm not advocating that clapping should occur at mass. I'm just saying it is not so black and white in all cases. Prudential judgement comes into play. Nihil, your posting of pictures when you don't feel like continuing a discussion gets really old really fast. [/quote] Why was there clapping at his Mass? I think JPII would have been mortified. Every action at Mass has meaning, not only the movement and words of the priest, but of the people too. Clapping is never called for in the liturgy - it is a distraction and an abuse, just like holding hands at the Our Father or having belly dancers during processions. It is the Mass of Christ, the most solemn and sacred mystery of the Christian faith. Not the Mass of dUSt or the Mass of John Paul II. That is why I love the EF of the Mass. People are less likely to do whatever they want with it, inserting things here and there because they are fun or they are trying to "be sensitive". As if the liturgist is the one who died for the sins of the world.
Paladin D Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) [quote]Clapping has different meanings. Obviously, clapping for human achievement or for a performance is innappropriate during mass. But, I don't think all clapping falls into that category. For example, the clapping that occured during JP2's funeral mass--it is custom for there to be clapping at Italian funerals. Clapping during B16's masses when he came to the United States..... he did not tell people to stop clapping. I'm not advocating that clapping should occur at mass. I'm just saying it is not so black and white in all cases. Prudential judgement comes into play.[/quote] I agree with this. I also thought clapping was generally acceptable when a priest has become ordained or when a baby has been baptized? A joyous celebration of God's Grace upon those people. Edited April 19, 2011 by Paladin D
fides' Jack Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1302898972' post='2228996'] In pursuit of intellectual percision/honesty and clarity, he said that as a Cardinal, not as Pope Benedict XVI. Though I absolutely agree. I had the priviledge of being politely accosted (after Mass) by a parent of one of the children in the children's choir for not clapping. That was fun. [/quote] Thank you for your honesty - I didn't know that. Certainly, though, as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (second in command of the Church), and as one of the authors of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, he knew his stuff, and that statement should be adopted by all parishes around the globe.
fides' Jack Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303194325' post='2230108'] Clapping has different meanings. Obviously, clapping for human achievement or for a performance is innappropriate during mass. But, I don't think all clapping falls into that category. For example, the clapping that occured during JP2's funeral mass--it is custom for there to be clapping at Italian funerals. Bishops who ask for applause for newly ordained priests at ordination masses... Clapping during B16's masses when he came to the United States..... he did not tell people to stop clapping. [/quote] Hmm... Great point, and worthy of some serious thought.
fides' Jack Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1303019194' post='2229437'] +2 internets if you can get a video of him doing the Macarena to "We Are One Body". [/quote] Why? So we can all gossip about it here?
Vincent Vega Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1303235283' post='2230231'] Why? So we can all gossip about it here? [/quote] Don't have sour grapes just because you wanted the Electric Slide.
fides' Jack Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303193277' post='2230098'] I do remember one time where I actually did clap in mass. It wasn't for human achievement. It was after a homily. The parish I was attending was having a lot of issues with a liberal priest and liturgical abuses, etc. Well, a new priest came in. In one of his first homilies, he just totally went hardcore about ending the liturgical abuses, promoting confession, starting adoration at the parish, etc. After the homily, the congregation started clapping--me included. I don't think it was innapropriate at that moment. I don't think we were really praising any human achievement, but showing support and agreement with the things he said needed to be done. Why hasn't anybody commented on if they agree with me on this or not? I need support or denouncement. I'll take either. [/quote] dUSt, I have felt the exact same way a number of times. Once, after a great homily, I was inspired to write a letter to the priest in question. I wrote the letter, but ended up just thanking him in person. Still, while PMers are generally aware of the changes that need to take place, I think it's wise to consider why we might perform such an action (clapping). I completely accept that your (and my) reasons for doing so in such a time are not about achievements of any one person. We feel that way because of the aching in our hearts - aching for something better and holier, and when somebody speaks out supporting holier ideals, we feel overjoyed. It's quite natural. However, clapping itself takes others' attention away from where attention should be during Mass, and since that is the case it becomes inappropriate... *normally*. St. John of the Cross wrote about how the holiness of the Mass is capable of lifting every part of a man to be filled with joy - mentally, spiritually, physically, and even sensually. This spiritual joy can then become a distraction, and can cause inappropriate effects in some people. The reason is good, but the action itself might be another story. That's what I would say in normal circumstances. In your case, since the entire congregation was involved I really don't know what is appropriate. One more person clapping would not distract others. Perhaps somebody else could comment on this particular case.
Papist Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Well if clapping is accepted, would booing if the priest's homily is contrary to Church teaching?[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/idontknow.gif[/img]
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