If God Is All Powerful, Can He Make A Rock So Big, That Even He Cannot

[reyb]

i'm not sure what that means.

 

i suspect you are being too harsh on me. this is a known or known as a paradox. i'm just tryin to figure it out. and i don't see you doin much better at explaining anything.

 

to be sure, i also did acknowledge that if God wanted to go past the rules of logic, i wouldn't put it past him. i'm just tryin my best to understand how this would work in a world of logic.

I am simply summarizing your previous statements because I want you to see that you will surely fail to rationalize it. You will fail because, in your little paradox, you are obviously not looking that the Power of God is his ‘Word’. 

 

Thus, if  God said ‘Today you are my son’. Then, you will be his son forever. If God said ‘Today  is  your day of salvation’. Then, it will be done. Even if you are faithless he will remain faithful to his promise  as it is written in 2 Tim 2:11-13

 

If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

 

So again, if  God said ‘Let there be a rock which even I have no power to move it’. Then, it is done. But, why you are insisting on a possibility that God can moved it if you truly believe that his Word is his Power? 

 

God cannot lie and if there is a God who can lie then, that God is a false God.

Edited July 14, 2014 by reyb

[KnightofChrist]

If historical Jesus is so historical Jesus could He historical Jesus a historical Jesus that not even historical Jesus could historical Jesus?

[Credo in Deum]

If historical Jesus is so historical Jesus could He historical Jesus a historical Jesus that not even historical Jesus could historical Jesus?

  :bravo:    rotfl   :bravo:

[reyb]

If historical Jesus is so historical Jesus could He historical Jesus a historical Jesus that not even historical Jesus could historical Jesus?

So, what can I do? As you can see in that previous verse in 2 Tim 2:12 ‘If we disown him, he will also disown us;

Now, if you do not want to hear whatever I posted in here. Do not read it and that is, for your own good. :hehe2: Edited July 14, 2014 by reyb

[dairygirl4u2c]

I am simply summarizing your previous statements because I want you to see that you will surely fail to rationalize it. You will fail because, in your little paradox, you are obviously not looking that the Power of God is his ‘Word’. 

 

Thus, if  God said ‘Today you are my son’. Then, you will be his son forever. If God said ‘Today  is  your day of salvation’. Then, it will be done. Even if you are faithless he will remain faithful to his promise  as it is written in 2 Tim 2:11-13

 

If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

 

So again, if  God said ‘Let there be a rock which even I have no power to move it’. Then, it is done. But, why you are insisting on a possibility that God can moved it if you truly believe that his Word is his Power? 

 

God cannot lie and if there is a God who can lie then, that God is a false God.

 

you're basically ageeing with me. i said the same thing, approaching it as a matter of logic. i also approached it as a matter of his own consistency with the 'i won't drop the ball' analogy.

and then i gave an opt out, that God is God and he can do whatever he wants, logical or not. i hope you don't fault me for giving that possiblity to him.

 

[KnightofChrist]

If a circle is a square is it still a triangle?

[Credo in Deum]

Rhombus!

[reyb]

you're basically ageeing with me. i said the same thing, approaching it as a matter of logic. i also approached it as a matter of his own consistency with the 'i won't drop the ball' analogy.

and then i gave an opt out, that God is God and he can do whatever he wants, logical or not. i hope you don't fault me for giving that possiblity to him.

 

I am not.  (and I don't think so).

 

Let me illustrate what you are talking about.

 

Suppose, God said ‘Let this heavy rock exist which even I has no power to move it’. And then later on someone asks ‘If you are truly the most powerful God, Can you move it’. And then He says ‘Yes’ . If this God is not lying. Will you still put your faith in him when He says ‘ Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away’?

 

If your presentation of God’s ominpotence is correct then all God’s true witnesses are wrong because, they already testified that  ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ and  ‘He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

 

Anyway, if that is how you (all of you who read this post) see your powerful God then, I think I cannot help you ‘rationalizing’ it because the message of your simple riddle is a lie. You can never ‘rationalize’ anything if it is not true because, you have nothing to rationalize to begin with.

Edited July 15, 2014 by reyb

[dairygirl4u2c]

I am not.  (and I don't think so).

 

Let me illustrate what you are talking about.

 

Suppose, God said ‘Let this heavy rock exist which even I has no power to move it’. And then later on someone asks ‘If you are truly the most powerful God, Can you move it’. And then He says ‘Yes’ . If this God is not lying. Will you still put your faith in him when He says ‘ Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away’?

 

If your presentation of God’s ominpotence is correct then all God’s true witnesses are wrong because, they already testified that  ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ and  ‘He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

 

Anyway, if that is how you (all of you who read this post) see your powerful God then, I think I cannot help you ‘rationalizing’ it because the message of your simple riddle is a lie. You can never ‘rationalize’ anything if it is not true because, you have nothing to rationalize to begin with.

 

well, it still sounds like you agree with me. given i also approached it with the ball analogy, i was saying that even if God could act 'illogically', he wouldn't, as a matter of his own consistency. this is pretty much the same as God abiding by his own word.

i also don't think he could lift it as a matter of logic. but, that gets to the heart of the paradox, which remember is a known paradox. this is within the world of logic. within the world of the truly unlimited and God being God, if he wanted to act illlogically and lift it, more power to him. this gets into my past paragraph, though.
 

[reyb]

well, it still sounds like you agree with me. given i also approached it with the ball analogy, i was saying that even if God could act 'illogically', he wouldn't, as a matter of his own consistency. this is pretty much the same as God abiding by his own word.

i also don't think he could lift it as a matter of logic. but, that gets to the heart of the paradox, which remember is a known paradox. this is within the world of logic. within the world of the truly unlimited and God being God, if he wanted to act illlogically and lift it, more power to him. this gets into my past paragraph, though.
 

....’Illogical but still logical God’? Is it another kind of theological philosophy?

 

Why not simply say and believe that...

 

God can lift all and every rock he created. Nothing is too heavy and nothing is impossible to him because He is God, The One and Only all-powerful God. The Only Creator of Everything, Seen and Unseen, Heavens and earth and everything in it.  God is The Almighty because He is God.

  

So, If there is anyone who say, ‘There is a rock which is too heavy for him’ Then, that someone is a liar because, that kind of rock simply do not exist whether in heavens or on earth.

 

Can't you just believe it that way?

 

Anyway, Good luck.  

Edited July 15, 2014 by reyb

[The Hierophant]

I dunno if this has been said before and I probably won't contribute to this debate again, but virtually every philosopher grants that omnipotence does not require that God be able to do the literally impossible - God can't make it true that there is a greatest prime number, for instance.  Since it would be impossible for there to be a stone that God could not lift (more properly move, I'd say) God cannot make it, but that is not a restriction on omnipotence, which is merely the ability to do anything possible.  [Aside:  this comes up again in considerations of God's being able to lie - if God cannot lie, does that restrict his omnipotence?  Well, if it's literally not possible for God to lie, then on this conception of omnipotence, no.]

 

Some people have disagreed, however.  So let's assume that omnipotence requires the ability to do anything, including the impossible.  Then God could create a stone that He could not lift.  However, God could also lift that stone - it's impossible, since it's a stone that God cannot lift, but we've already said that God can do the impossible.  So there is no trouble here either.

[dairygirl4u2c]

the last poster's take is interesting.

 

i would probably disagree, though i have to think more about it. i would argue the only limitation is that he can't make unstoppable force of a rock, and be an immovable force of God, at the same time. that would be a logical impossibility. so with this take, he can make the rock. or he can lift the rock, but both forces cannot be going on infinitely opposing at the same time.

[dairygirl4u2c]

....’Illogical but still logical God’? Is it another kind of theological philosophy?

 

Why not simply say and believe that...

 

God can lift all and every rock he created. Nothing is too heavy and nothing is impossible to him because He is God, The One and Only all-powerful God. The Only Creator of Everything, Seen and Unseen, Heavens and earth and everything in it.  God is The Almighty because He is God.

  

So, If there is anyone who say, ‘There is a rock which is too heavy for him’ Then, that someone is a liar because, that kind of rock simply do not exist whether in heavens or on earth.

 

Can't you just believe it that way?

 

Anyway, Good luck.  

 

i don't think so. i understand the idea that God can do anything, so that would mean being able to lift the rock. but if you take that logic, God can do anything so he should be able to make an immovable rock too.

 

i think the best approach is what i say, that he can't have both forces going a the same time, immovable and unstoppable.
 

[oremus1]

Besides, God wouldn't bother to lift the rock. If he has faith to move mountains, I think he (the Father OR the Son) would just say, "Rock, get outta my way" without bothering to lift.

A good example is the huge stone at the sepulchure on the day He rose again

[reyb]

i don't think so. i understand the idea that God can do anything, so that would mean being able to lift the rock. but if you take that logic, God can do anything so he should be able to make an immovable rock too.

 

i think the best approach is what i say, that he can't have both forces going a the same time, immovable and unstoppable.
 

 

 

So, the question is....Now (today or at this moment), can he move or lift that rock or not?

Edited July 18, 2014 by reyb