An Honest And Civil Discussion On The Modesty & Bikinis

[Cherie]

I don't believe it is modest for Catholic or any Christian woman to wear a bikini. Via a Facebook friend, I found this video of Jason Evert addressing that very issue and I thought it was great, so I posted this video on my own page:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtzIcz7MOkc[/media]

You'd be amazed the flurry of comments from good Catholic people I know, both public and private, saying that they wear one or disagree with me--but they never really say why. I am always shocked to see good Catholic women I know who post pictures and lo and behold, they're wearing a bikini. It's disedifying at best, really.

I truly don't understand how a Catholic woman can defend wearing one. Seriously - I wanted to "push the issue" and ask those defending it, "WHY do you believe it's ok to wear one? Do you think it's modest? Or do you just not care about modesty?" but I didn't think that was a good thing to do. So my husband and I had a conversation about it, and he tried to play devil's advocate, saying things like modesty is subjective, and that for some tribes in Africa or wherever, women don't even wear shirts and it's not a "sexual" thing, either, it's just the culture ... that it's so commonplace that it's not as sexualized anymore and standards of modesty change over the years, so it's not a problem nowadays where it would have been a problem when it was first introduced ... that hardly any Catholic follows the Vatican guidelines for modesty given a number of years ago (in the early 60s? 50s? Don't remember when it came out but it's true that even "modest" people don't follow those guidelines anymore, like "no shirts lower than two finger widths below the collarbone" and that shirt sleeves should reach the elbow) which means the standards must have changed even according to the Vatican... and that just as kneeling is more reverent for Western Catholics and standing is more reverent for Eastern Catholics, there are some outfits that are modest for some cultures that aren't modest for others (remember he doesn't really believe these things he was just trying to use arguments that others might use). I said things like yes, what I wear today isn't considered "modest" in Saudi Arabia, but in Saudi Arabia they go to the [i]other[/i] extreme -- we're supposed to go down the "via media" ... meaning not too far to the left and not too far to the right: extremes either way are bad. But that there ARE objective standards for modesty - and that basically wearing underwear in public (which is a bikini) can never be considered a modest option, and therefore is not an acceptable option for a Catholic woman.

I would love to engage in civil discussion about this, because I truly don't know how a Catholic woman can defend the practice of wearing a bikini and I really would like to be enlightened about that. If you have any opinions or know why people defend it or even want to defend it yourself, please let me know. I really appreciate it, y'all!

[Brother Adam]

You'll get no argument from me or most of the men here seeking to be chaste.

[homeschoolmom]

No argument from me, either. Though.... my dd is in the market for a new swimsuit and we are in search of a modest tankini (with shorts instead of a bikini bottom). She is so tall and thin that a one piece has become very difficult to find (now that she's a teenager, especially).

[Archaeology cat]

I always found it difficult to find a one-piece that fit. I did used to wear bikinis, but would not do so again, having a better understanding of modesty now. I'd prefer a modest tankini. Haven't been swimming in ages, though.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1310218747' post='2264933']
No argument from me, either. Though.... my dd is in the market for a new swimsuit and we are in search of a modest tankini (with shorts instead of a bikini bottom). She is so tall and thin that a one piece has become very difficult to find (now that she's a teenager, especially).
[/quote]
They pretty much don't MAKE one pieces for that age range! And the past few years I've noticed fewer and fewer shorts or skirt bottom swimsuits, either. They pretty much make almost nothing modest in swim wear for that age range, unless it's like board shorts or something like that. SO ANNOYING! You could cover more by taking the money you would pay for something like that and sewing it together!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1310224055' post='2264944']
They pretty much don't MAKE one pieces for that age range! And the past few years I've noticed fewer and fewer shorts or skirt bottom swimsuits, either. They pretty much make almost nothing modest in swim wear for that age range, unless it's like board shorts or something like that. SO ANNOYING! You could cover more by taking the money you would pay for something like that and sewing it together!
[/quote]
Tell me about it! At least we aren't at odds-- she's fully on board with a modest suit. In fact, she's probably more modest than I would require (last time we bought swimwear, she got a modest one-piece, the swimshirt and the skirt... not cheap... and she doesn't even swim but once a year or so!)

[MissScripture]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1310224489' post='2264945']
Tell me about it! At least we aren't at odds-- she's fully on board with a modest suit. In fact, she's probably more modest than I would require (last time we bought swimwear, she got a modest one-piece, the swimshirt and the skirt... not cheap... and she doesn't even swim but once a year or so!)
[/quote]
Yeah, swimwear is so ridiculously expensive! Good luck! I've found online shopping to be much better than in stores, because they have a much bigger selection.

[Lil Red]

Look for sport suits like for competitive swimming.

So, I don't have a swimming suit right now (something about being incredibly depressed when I go to find one), and since we bought a kiddie pool, the kids and I have been outside every day. I wear an old sports bra and some shortie shorts. Would I wear that in public? Not a chance. But in my own backyard? It isn't a problem.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1310218747' post='2264933']
No argument from me, either. Though.... my dd is in the market for a new swimsuit and we are in search of a modest tankini (with shorts instead of a bikini bottom).
[/quote]
I, for one, think it's great that you're so close with your designated driver that you shop for swimwear together!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310229642' post='2264961']
I, for one, think it's great that you're so close with your designated driver that you shop for swimwear together!
[/quote]

[Basilisa Marie]

I definitely believe that modesty guidelines have culturally changed. For example, most gentlemen I know won't bat an eye to a woman wearing a tank top (one with 1-2 inches on the shoulder that isn't ridiculously low cut) and "hipster" jeans, as long as stomach isn't showing. But then that depends on the person. I had a professor that always wore collared shirts and slacks to teach, but had a presentation or something one day and wore a knee-length skirt. Granted, there was nothing sexual about it, but after class everyone made comments about being surprised that Dr. So-and-so had calves and a collarbone!

As far as bikinis go...I was wracking my brain for a good devil's advocate argument, but really there isn't one. The only things I can think of have already been said - it's RIDICULOUSLY HARD to find a decent suit for teenage bodies that is NOT a bikini. The few one pieces that are tucked onto a rack in a dark back corner of a store are usually hideous or matronly. But I've also found that even though it's really really hard to find a good, modest suit, it's surely not impossible. One just has to be sure to search multiple stores. I've been able to find a couple of good options for tankinis that are stylish, flattering but also provide plenty of coverage. I've had my eye on one of those vintage style one-pieces for a while, but they're so darn expensive. But really...what any argument for wearing bikinis comes down to is either the shopper doesn't want to look hard enough, or the wearer wants to be sexy and to heck with modesty.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1310236265' post='2265010']
it's RIDICULOUSLY HARD to find a decent suit for teenage bodies that is NOT a bikini. The few one pieces that are tucked onto a rack in a dark back corner of a store are usually hideous or matronly. But I've also found that even though it's really really hard to find a good, modest suit, it's surely not impossible. One just has to be sure to search multiple stores. I've been able to find a couple of good options for tankinis that are stylish, flattering but also provide plenty of coverage. I've had my eye on one of those vintage style one-pieces for a while, but they're so darn expensive. But really...what any argument for wearing bikinis comes down to is either the shopper doesn't want to look hard enough, or the wearer wants to be sexy and to heck with modesty.
[/quote]
it's hard to find a swimsuit for little girls that is not a two piece. no lie.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1310237465' post='2265016']
it's hard to find a swimsuit for little girls that is not a two piece. no lie.
[/quote]
I'd believe it, since more and more little girls clothes looks like smaller versions of teenagers clothes.

[BG45]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1310238052' post='2265018']
I'd believe it, since more and more little girls clothes looks like smaller versions of teenagers clothes.
[/quote]

I stopped even shopping at Abercrombie and Fitch after they introduced the push up bra for seven year olds and the tween thong.

[Sarah147]

Cherie, I love the video by Jason Evert!!

Would you be caught wearing a bra and underwear in a grocery store? Then why would you wear a bikini?

I'm totally against bikinis. I also don't like bathing suits, as they still are revealing and form fitting. Even skirt bathing suits are a problem; would you wear a skirt that short to Church or work?

I like Splash Gear, which Lilllabettt told me about.


[img]https://splas004.secure.omnis.com/store/images/uploads/productphotos/sport_front.jpg[/img]


If surfers can wear stuff like that, then it's hip for everyone!

Edited July 9, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[OnlySunshine]

I am in complete agreement that bikinis are not modest. I cannot and will not fathom ever buying one and wearing one. I hate going to the beach or a water park and seeing young girls walking around in them. I always wear a swimdress that covers up my torso and does not show much cleavage at all. I have always been a prude and even my mom gets after me about it sometimes, but my views will not change. I think it is unnecessary for young girls and women to walk around showing so much skin. I look at it as walking around in your underwear and would you do that in public like you would a bikini? I imagine not.

My young adult group often has beach and swimming events in the summer and they always send a notice that "bikinis are forbidden" and only one-piece suits and tasteful two piece like tankinis with shorts are allowed. I'm glad they are worried about modesty.

This is the new swimsuit I bought right before we went to the water park in May:

[img]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8313/44787117.jpg[/img]

I have a shorter torso, so it doesn't go down quite as much in the front. It sits right at the top of the sternum.

Edited July 9, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[Sarah147]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1310239833' post='2265026']
[img]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8313/44787117.jpg[/img]

I have a shorter torso, so it doesn't go down quite as much in the front. It sits right at the top of the sternum.
[/quote]


In my opinion, in the bedroom with my imaginable husband, yes. But in public? Ouch.

[LuxChristi]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]This is my first post! [/font]J[font="Times New Roman"] I agree – the question of the appropriateness of bikinis must include a look into the moral law. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it speaks of modesty, which is under the Section titled “Battle for Purity” (2520-2527), and that modesty is essential to purity, covering what “should remain hidden” and being reserved "where there is a risk of unhealthfy curiosity". It also speaks of modesty as being "discreet" and is the inspiration to "one's choice of clothing". Most would agree, I think, that bikinis, by the scant covering provided, generally provoke an unhealthy curiosity. The CCC also speaks of “moral permissiveness”, which is the mistaken approach to our freedom within the moral law. Morality is not dictated by the textile industry or by fashion trends. Therefore, it is difficult to argue that bikinis (underwear with spandex added) fall into the category of modest clothing which shows restraint and discretion, providing a sufficient covering to what should remain hidden. [/font][/size]




[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1310215701' post='2264928']
I don't believe it is modest for Catholic or any Christian woman to wear a bikini. Via a Facebook friend, I found this video of Jason Evert addressing that very issue and I thought it was great, so I posted this video on my own page:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtzIcz7MOkc[/media]

You'd be amazed the flurry of comments from good Catholic people I know, both public and private, saying that they wear one or disagree with me--but they never really say why. I am always shocked to see good Catholic women I know who post pictures and lo and behold, they're wearing a bikini. It's disedifying at best, really.

I truly don't understand how a Catholic woman can defend wearing one. Seriously - I wanted to "push the issue" and ask those defending it, "WHY do you believe it's ok to wear one? Do you think it's modest? Or do you just not care about modesty?" but I didn't think that was a good thing to do. So my husband and I had a conversation about it, and he tried to play devil's advocate, saying things like modesty is subjective, and that for some tribes in Africa or wherever, women don't even wear shirts and it's not a "sexual" thing, either, it's just the culture ... that it's so commonplace that it's not as sexualized anymore and standards of modesty change over the years, so it's not a problem nowadays where it would have been a problem when it was first introduced ... that hardly any Catholic follows the Vatican guidelines for modesty given a number of years ago (in the early 60s? 50s? Don't remember when it came out but it's true that even "modest" people don't follow those guidelines anymore, like "no shirts lower than two finger widths below the collarbone" and that shirt sleeves should reach the elbow) which means the standards must have changed even according to the Vatican... and that just as kneeling is more reverent for Western Catholics and standing is more reverent for Eastern Catholics, there are some outfits that are modest for some cultures that aren't modest for others (remember he doesn't really believe these things he was just trying to use arguments that others might use). I said things like yes, what I wear today isn't considered "modest" in Saudi Arabia, but in Saudi Arabia they go to the [i]other[/i] extreme -- we're supposed to go down the "via media" ... meaning not too far to the left and not too far to the right: extremes either way are bad. But that there ARE objective standards for modesty - and that basically wearing underwear in public (which is a bikini) can never be considered a modest option, and therefore is not an acceptable option for a Catholic woman.

I would love to engage in civil discussion about this, because I truly don't know how a Catholic woman can defend the practice of wearing a bikini and I really would like to be enlightened about that. If you have any opinions or know why people defend it or even want to defend it yourself, please let me know. I really appreciate it, y'all!
[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

Welcome to Phatmass LuxChristi!

[Ice_nine]

Do guys have to be modest too? I often hear guys retort with a joke like "lol there's nothin' sexy about my beer gut hanging out over my swim shorts so I doubt I'm tempting anyone lol" but I guess some women could use the same argument (myself included ). But is it ok for men to walk around half-naked but not ok for women? And why?