The Wedding Dress Orders (For Us Romantics)

[Sister Marie]

I agree that they might have special permission... I just wanted to give the actual directive for reference for others... and because I had a hard time finding it and wanted to make sure I wasn't dreaming it! haha.

[Chiquitunga]

I agree that they might have special permission... I just wanted to give the actual directive for reference for others... and because I had a hard time finding it and wanted to make sure I wasn't dreaming it! haha.

 

Oh, that was great, you're finding and sharing that! I am very happy to see this too. The detective/historian/researcher in me is always interested in getting those clear primary sources! :detective:

[Chiquitunga]

I believe it is this way in other Spanish Carmels too, besides Dallas & Littleton, where the public can be present, despite it technically not being a public ceremony. I have heard of people going to attend clothing ceremonies at Valparaiso & Elysburg for instance.

 

another example from Elysburg Carmel ~ http://en.gloria.tv/?media=122205 (they do not use the wedding dress, btw) I am researching this and hope to learn more about a special allowance they have to use the old rite for investiture, rather than the new one from 1984 that was made reference to earlier in this thread. as Gracian has said, Carmels are now free to use whatever Ceremonial they chose and there are a number out there now that are presently in use, like one published by 1990 Carmesl in Spain and another one I heard of published by Iron Mountain Carmel

[Sponsa-Christi]

 

 

I just searched for a few minutes because I remember very well going through a book that outlined how reception or investiture, profession of temporary vows, and profession of perpetual vows are supposed to be celebrated liturgically.  I can't find it online, probably because its older.  It might be the book "Rites of Religious Profession: Pastoral Introduction and Complete Text (1989)" but I just don't remember exactly.  While 1989 is out dated for the world, its pretty current for the Church, haha.  There might be another more primary source, for these norms but I don't remember anymore from my novitiate days!

 

Sister Marie,

 

I’ve read the same thing, too. I couldn’t find an online reference, either, but the reception into the novitiate is described as a private ceremony in the book Rites of the Catholic Church, vol. II, in the section that deals with religious profession. But I think this book was last updated in 1990, so it's only slightly more recent than your source.

 

Interestingly, while individual communities are given quite a bit of freedom to use their  own customs, the “Rites” book generally seems to envision the reception of the habit as something that happens immediately before first vows, as opposed to at the beginning of the novitiate. (It talks about how it would be praiseworthy for the habits to be blessed the evening before first profession, so that the Sisters to be professed could wear them for the first time at the profession Mass.)

 

I don’t have my copy of the “Rites” book with me right now, but I also seem to recall their being a specification that nothing in the ceremony for entrance into the novitiate should come across as suggesting that the novices are making any kind of binding commitment or that their freedom to leave is in any way restricted. I think this is the reason why so many communities discontinued the custom of wearing wedding dresses as a part of the ceremony for beginning the novitiate—if you’re already symbolically “marrying” Jesus as a brand-new novice, I would think that this could make it extremely difficult emotionally for someone who legitimately discerns during novitiate that her vocation lies elsewhere.

 

Although that being said…I do think that for communities with a special wedding dress tradition (like the Poor Clares) it can still be a lovely custom when it’s approached in a realistic and healthy way. 

[Chiquitunga]

Well said. I love when Carmels do this, as it was their custom for some years although not from the beginning for sure (actually from the beginning they had no postulancy at all, but went from their secular clothes to the Habit of a Novice when they entered, one Carmel told me) But it makes perfect sense why some Carmels would choose to not do this anymore, which has nothing to do if they are more traditional or not (eg, the JMJ Carmels do not) But yes, for Poor Clares, I agree with you there.

 

That line you are referring to by the way, which refers specifically to the texts, is this one, "The texts for the rite must avoid anything that may seem to diminish the novices' freedom of choice or obscure the true meaning of a noviceship or time of testing." found here & here in Vol. II of that Rites book.

 

Regarding the line, "The rite is to be very simple and direct, in the presence of the religious community only" I can see how the Rockford Poor Clares for instance really did follow this. While the public (which was like 4 persons) could see the Sister in the parlor in her wedding dress beforehand, and afterwards in her Habit, the actual Rite was done privately in the Nuns' Choir. 

 

However for those Carmels I mentioned above, it was more public (though also in the Nuns' Choir & behind a double grille) though at least in Dallas it was still referred to as a private ceremony with no invitations sent out for instance and outside of Holy Mass of course. But yes, I believe they have freedom to follow their old Ceremonial in this way as so many Carmels still do this that are totally faithful to the Church.

 

Also, I mentioned there that in seems communities with the Traditional Latin Mass, like the Adorers of the Royal Heart, Benedictines of Mary & Slaves of the Immaculate Heart must have the freedom  to have it more public like this too, probably using older rites. But there are indeed several other communities that also are like this, like the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate and Schoenstatt Sisters of Mary (a Secular Institute)

 

All very interesting to ponder :think:

Edited July 19, 2013 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

 

Investiture for the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate

(largest picture I could find of them, the ones with our Klaudi87 aren't up anymore, nor that other one on their old site)

 

"At about 11:00 a.m., in the new chapel of the Mother House in Frigento, Rev. Fr. Stefano Maria Manelli celebrated the Holy Mass, in which the candidates for the religious investiture participated in their “wedding gowns”. At the end of the Holy Mass the postulants went to the Shrine of our Lady of Good Counsel where at around 12:30p.m. the ceremony of the religious investiture according to the ancient form of the Roman Seraphic Rite took place. In the brief introduction Fr. Stefano especially recommended the sublime virtue of humility, which is certainly the best disposition in receiving the great grace of the religious investiture. After having asked to be admitted to the Institute, the postulants were received, one by one, on the steps of the altar where, at the feet of the Founder, they left their civil attire and were dressed again with the seraphic habit. Then each one of them received a new name to signify the new life and the particular mission assigned to each of them by God." ~ http://www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com/events.html

 

It seems they may have an exception from the directives in the new rite book to follow the norms of the older rite. It would be something interesting to ask about anyway. I would like to ask my local (French) Carmel, which I know does it entirely private, about the many other Spanish Carmels who have it more publicly (Dallas, Littleton, Valpariaso & fnds, Buffalo & Alexandria, not sure about Brooklyn but I would guess them too, Osma de Borgos in Spain, etc.)

[Chiquitunga]

here it is!

 

 

 

and this one on their new site, thank you MM!

 

Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate:

 

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! I was researching a little more for this thread regarding the recent norms given, quoted above, for the Rite of Initiation into Religious Life (aka, clothing, investiture) 

 

The original document with these norms was the Ordo Professionis Religiosae published in 1970. (found that here)

 

"Before giving the ritual of temporary and perpetual profession, the Ordo gives the ritual for entrance into the novitiate." (page 292)

 

quoting again from that book, a page up

 

"Until the appearance of the Ordo professionis religiosae, the various religious orders and congregations all used rituals of their own that were more or less original and connected with their manner of life. The Ordo professionis religiosae, which was promulgated on February 7, 1970, does not intend simply to do away with these rituals. It is presented rather as a normative blueprint that is to be respected but that also allows for many adaptions."

 

And I found a similar statement here, "Indeed, as the new liturgical law directs, this book makes constant reference to the Roman Ordo Professionis Religiosae (“Order of Religious Profession”), adapting elements of that order to itself, using the freedom that is allowed to the individual religious families"  

 

So that seems to explain why some communities do not follow exactly the norms given by the Ordo. This also makes sense in light of what Gracian has said he has learned from his correspondence with different OCD Prioresses - that after VII individual Carmels were given the freedom to write up their own Ceremonies and Rituals. 

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

 

 

 

Every time I see these photos, I think that girl is Jen Pringle from Anne of Avonlea.

 

I believe she is one of the American Sisters from the Diocese of La Crosse ~ http://www.dioceseoflacrosse.com/ministry_resources/consecratedlife/recentvocations.htm

[OnlySunshine]

 

here it is!

 

 

 

and this one on their new site, thank you MM!

 

 

 

 

Who would have thought that my friend would have entered them instead of the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal?  I was a little surprised but still incredibly happy for her.  She entered on the Feast of the Visitation.  I find my mind going to her and wondering how she is doing.  :)
 

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! I was researching a little more for this thread regarding the recent norms given, quoted above, for the Rite of Initiation into Religious Life (aka, clothing, investiture) 

 

The original document with these norms was the Ordo Professionis Religiosae published in 1970. (found that here)

 

"Before giving the ritual of temporary and perpetual profession, the Ordo gives the ritual for entrance into the novitiate." (page 292)

 

quoting again from that book, a page up

 

"Until the appearance of the Ordo professionis religiosae, the various religious orders and congregations all used rituals of their own that were more or less original and connected with their manner of life. The Ordo professionis religiosae, which was promulgated on February 7, 1970, does not intend simply to do away with these rituals. It is presented rather as a normative blueprint that is to be respected but that also allows for many adaptions."

 

And I found a similar statement here, "Indeed, as the new liturgical law directs, this book makes constant reference to the Roman Ordo Professionis Religiosae (“Order of Religious Profession”), adapting elements of that order to itself, using the freedom that is allowed to the individual religious families"  

 

So that seems to explain why some communities do not follow exactly the norms given by the Ordo. This also makes sense in light of what Gracian has said he has learned from his correspondence with different OCD Prioresses - that after VII individual Carmels were given the freedom to write up their own Ceremonies and Rituals. 

 

 

One more quick post on this for now... I meant to add, there is a footnote referenced after the second statement I quoted there which is: 

 

SCCD, Indicationes pro Ordine professionis religiosae aptando (“Indications for adapting the Order of religious profession”), made public law in the French language on July 15, 1970: “Notitiae” 6, 1970, pp. 319-322 and EDIL I, pp. 697-701.

 

It seems to be a separate document/supplement to the Ordo published soon after. If I ever get any more clarifications on this, I will post it. :like:

Edited July 26, 2013 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

 

 

 

just noticed they were never posted here yet ~ http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/129636-religious-of-the-sacred-heart-of-florence/

[Chiquitunga]

quick thought I wanted to add here for now. I honestly am not posting here in relation to the current discussion in the Bride of Christ thread, in case it may come across that way, but I have seriously been intending to post several things here for a few weeks now and they've been floating around in my head ever since! I feel like need to get them out before I take a PM break for a while to attend to an immediate project going on in my life, as I was saying in the other thread. I hope to get back here later tonight though to post the rest of everything I've been wanting to, and then take my break :like: God bless!

[Lumiere]

 

 

 

just noticed they were never posted here yet ~ http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/129636-religious-of-the-sacred-heart-of-florence/

 

I believe the young woman in those photos is Annie Heyne who is is a graduate of the University of Dallas and a MFA graduate from the New York Academy of Art. She sold her artwork to pay off her debt so she could enter.

 

Some of her story is here.

 

This seems to be what Madre Annie Heyne is doing now.

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

oh my goodness! that is so wonderful to hear! :) I'm going to post that in the thread on them, thank you!! 

[MarysLittleFlower]

wow, how wonderful to see her journey! :D

Edited July 27, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[Chiquitunga]

okay, this one I have been meaning to post over a month. I am honestly usually not a big fan of overly emotional songs, this is one is so beautiful.... http://www.cifras.com.br/cifra/missionario-shalom/belissimo-esposo/  :heart:

 

these are the Traditional Carmelite Hermits in Brazil ~ http://carmelotradicional.blogspot.com/  they use the wedding dress. inperpetuity wrote a little about them here

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWm9Ye7FpD4

[Chiquitunga]

going through the thread, I noticed this post of Iggy's (miss her!) and wanted to highlight it again

 

Sometimes someone will post on Phatmass that the posters are being very superficial and worldly to be thinking about things like wedding dresses, crowns of flowers, and wedding rings. Personally, since so many of us started thinking about (or even planning!) our weddings at a young age, (I don't know what it's like for little girls now) it seems natural to me to talk about it now. (Funny, even though I'd never met a nun or religious Sister in my life, I wore my petticoat (now THAT dates me!) or a towel on my head alternatively as a nun or a bride, depending on my mood.)

What happened? As I grew out of the stage of wearing petticoats on my head, my parents were in the process of changing from being very religious to agnositics to (in my father's case) atheists. Also, I had no Catholic friends until college, and I liked boys too much to imagine living without one. As I got a little older (and actually married a Catholic guy who had been in minor seminary), I realized that, realistically, the vow of obedience was a "mountain" in the way--I had no desire to be obedient, and it's not really different now. (There were far more very religious people at Berkeley than most people expect--but there were very few people, even among the religious ones--who could even imagine obedience. LOL)

The answer I give to people who think that discerners/aspirants should not be even thinking about such things, is that, as far as I know, NO discerner/aspirant who has posted on Phatmass has chosen an Order solely because it has things like wedding dresses and crowns of flowers. Also, I know of LOTS of posters who have admitted that they would love to wear a wedding dress or a crown of flowers, but joined an Order/Community even knowing they would not have those things. God's calling to a particular Order/Community was FAR more important than a wedding dress. These are fun threads, and interesting subjects to talk about--many of us enjoy them. However, I feel very comfortrable that the vast majority of Phatmass women in discernment/aspirancy have their values in order and I see no harm in these conversations.

:like:

[nikita92]

I noticed that none of these so called bridal communities wear their hair in the "updo"style. (I appreciate the formal bridal look such as Princess Grace. If I'm wearing a long sleeve wedding dress in a church.. A updo just seems to compliment it)

[Chiquitunga]

Elizabeth did :heart:

I have never seen this picture of Blessed Elizabeth so large and clear before!

 

 

This is from a site of Discalced Carmelites in Sicily ~ http://www.carmelosicilia.it/mostra%20fotografica%202.htm It is picture # 54 here. They did a nice job adapting the lighting. So great to see this!

 

 

To be the Bride of Christ ~ http://carmelourladysdovecote.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/bl-elizabeth-of-the-trinitys-to-be-the-mystical-bride-of-christ/   :heart:

 

 

and it looks like Chiqui in my profile did too :like: