Voter Id Laws: A Fake Solution To A Fake Problem

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346615518' post='2477640']
It's not necessary lazy. At Chapel Hill the DMV is miles and miles away and the buses don't go out there. It's really difficult to find. If you don't have a car and your working 2 or 3 shiitake mushroom minimum wage jobs then your trouble attaining an ID is not necessarily from being too lazy.

If the sort of fraud this law was designed to prevent were an actual problem then it would be tricky but since there is no such problem what is the point of making it more difficult for people who tend not to have flexible work hours and poor transportation options to actually vote? Aside from, you know, helping republicans.


[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=87NN5sdqNt8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=87NN5sdqNt8[/url][/media]
[/quote]

Didn't watch the video-the 'right turn only' turned me off.

Sounds like you are right about Chapel Hill, but it seems to be an exceptional case.

You say there is no actual voter fraud taking place (ie 'no problem') but there are so many cases where dead people have voted. Of course, as you say, voter fraud is a tricky problem to get any substantive statistics on.

Whichever way this voter ID issue goes, it will help one party. Neither party can point the finger at the other for trying to change/not change this law, since both do it with their own interests in mind.

[4588686]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1346621346' post='2477662']
If you don't know how to vote, how to get ID, then what knowledge of the issues or candidates do you have. The easier it is for ignorant voters to vote, the stupider and more superficial lying politicians we end up with. We've got enough.

If you wont take responsibilty for yourself, of course you will want the Government to take care of you.
[/quote]

I'm glad that you're such hot poo. I think it's fantastic that you are an asset to the country, unlike a single mother with a shiitake mushroom wal-mart job, who is apparently a leech. Next time you see Ayn Rand at John Galt's place please tell her I said 'hi.' But somehow it seems like their might be an issue with a government which makes pretense to be representative body not, you know, representing a large portion of the electorate.

The reason, this is a bad idea, is because similar seemingly reasonable requirements were used to systematically disenfranchise blacks in the south. And these laws are part of a larger trend of seeing regulations while, while no one is too onerous, together combine to make voting much more difficult for [s]the scum of this nation, who are unworthy to even kiss you, the great productive citizen's shoe [/s]low income voters in general, and black voters in particular.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Hasan

[add]

30,000 dead people registered to vote

LINK: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html

[4588686]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1346633801' post='2477708']
30,000 dead people registered to vote

LINK: [url="http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html"]http://www.charlotte...30000-dead.html[/url]
[/quote]

[url="http://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote"]http://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote[/url]

[GeorgiiMichael]

I won't weigh in too much on the issue because I think both sides are being a bit ridiculous about the whole thing and both sides have reasons to either pass or not pass the law.

All I know is, my friend from Illinois and his family found out that his grandfather (who had been dead for a good 10 years or so) voted in the 2008 election.

[4588686]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1346634738' post='2477712']
I won't weigh in too much on the issue because I think both sides are being a bit ridiculous about the whole thing and both sides have reasons to either pass or not pass the law.

All I know is, my friend from Illinois and his family found out that his grandfather (who had been dead for a good 10 years or so) voted in the 2008 election.
[/quote]

How do they know that he voted?

[GeorgiiMichael]

I think it was in the paper? I'm not sure the exact details, but depending on the state, they'll announce who voted. It hearkens back to a time when people used actual paper ballots and when the vote was cast the poll attendant would announce, "Joe Schmoe has voted."

[GeorgiiMichael]

Double post, sorry.

I haven't made up my mind on the Voter ID laws yet, but I do know that we have a royally screwed up electoral system all across the board. Voter fraud is far too easy when you have over a million people who are dead still registered to vote.

[add]

In most places in the country, voting is looked upon as a right and a duty, but in Chicago it's a sport. In Chicago not only your vote counts, but all kinds of other votes--kids, dead folks, and so on.

Johnsonville brat Gregory, Johnsonville brat Gregory's Political Primer, 1972

[add]

In most places in the country, voting is looked upon as a right and a duty, but in Chicago it's a sport. In Chicago not only your vote counts, but all kinds of other votes--kids, dead folks, and so on.

Johnsonville brat Gregory, Johnsonville brat Gregory's Political Primer, 1972

[4588686]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1346635424' post='2477721']
In most places in the country, voting is looked upon as a right and a duty, but in Chicago it's a sport. In Chicago not only your vote counts, but all kinds of other votes--kids, dead folks, and so on.

Johnsonville brat Gregory, Johnsonville brat Gregory's Political Primer, 1972
[/quote]

In-person voting fraud?

[4588686]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1346635210' post='2477717']
Double post, sorry.

I haven't made up my mind on the Voter ID laws yet, but I do know that we have a royally screwed up electoral system all across the board. Voter fraud is far too easy when you have over a million people who are dead still registered to vote.
[/quote]


If the person is dead and their is a record of them voting, then that would be pretty easy to demonstrate. The republicans have been trying to find evidence of wide-spread, in person voting fraud for a long time now and they have found very little. Far, far less than the numbers of people who would end up being barred from voting by these laws. If there were no drawback to the ID laws then I'd be all for it. Even if there is no problem of in-person voting fraud the extra measure would be fine. But given that the laws are expected to mean a sizable number of Americans will not be able to vote the antidote is far worse than the disease it seeks to cure. It's like using chemotherapy to get rid of a cold.

[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20101225110235/http://www.slate.com/id/2166589/pagenum/all/"]http://web.archive.org/web/20101225110235/http://www.slate.com/id/2166589/pagenum/all/[/url]

[havok579257]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1346634738' post='2477712']
I won't weigh in too much on the issue because I think both sides are being a bit ridiculous about the whole thing and both sides have reasons to either pass or not pass the law.

All I know is, my friend from Illinois and his family found out that his grandfather (who had been dead for a good 10 years or so) voted in the 2008 election.
[/quote]

your clearly not telling the truth. as we have heard over and over from liberals, voter fraud is not a problem.

well not a problems for them that is cause they get all those dead people to vote for them.

you need an id to cash a check, get an apartment or house, buy beer, buy cigerette's, buy a car from a dealership, go to school and so on and so on. its an excuse to say voter id laws disernfranchise people. you need an idea now a days to do everything.

[havok579257]

the people who are disenfranchised as liberals say have never bought alcohol, cigerette's, rented an apartment, bought a house, cashed a single check, payed with a check, possibly payed with a credit card(they used to require id and it still happens), went to college, drove a vehicle. so these people must still with mom and dad, never had a job, never had a car, never had anything.

[Winchester]

How are you going to organize people in order to affect large elections through individual voter fraud?

[Jesus_lol]

You know, I expected the people arguing against Hasan here to be saying "No, these ID requirements dont prevent citizens from voting" or maybe "Yes, that is a concern, but it can be mitigated in these ways, and is IMO a risk worth taking for the perceived reward."

But instead it is full of people saying "The people who will be excluded(little argument about that there) dont matter anyways, because I think they are losers and leeches. Since they are poor(and thus, obviously lazy) they dont need to have the right to vote."

Reprehensible and completely pathetic. The people who fought and died for democracy in your country would spit in your face.

[4588686]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1346636827' post='2477727']
your clearly not telling the truth. as we have heard over and over from liberals, voter fraud is not a problem.

well not a problems for them that is cause they get all those dead people to vote for them.

you need an id to cash a check, get an apartment or house, buy beer, buy cigerette's, buy a car from a dealership, go to school and so on and so on. its an excuse to say voter id laws disernfranchise people. you need an idea now a days to do everything.
[/quote]

Oh. I see. So in your mind, 'I think my friend said that he thinks that his grandfather was counted as having voted' is proof of widespread voter fraud.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1346637986' post='2477732']
How are you going to organize people in order to affect large elections through individual voter fraud?
[/quote]

You obviously aren't from Chicago.....

[4588686]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1346638078' post='2477733']
You know, I expected the people arguing against Hasan here to be saying "No, these ID requirements dont prevent citizens from voting" or maybe "Yes, that is a concern, but it can be mitigated in these ways, and is IMO a risk worth taking for the perceived reward."

But instead it is full of people saying "The people who will be excluded(little argument about that there) dont matter anyways, because I think they are losers and leeches. Since they are poor(and thus, obviously lazy) they dont need to have the right to vote."

Reprehensible and completely pathetic. The people who fought and died for democracy in your country would spit in your face.
[/quote]

Yeah. That seems to be the consensus of some here. A word of warning about that. One of my best friends works for a major consulting firm. I don't know the income of phatmassers, but assuming that the national averages roughly apply here (even assuming that phatmassrs tend to be somewhat financially better off than the national average) he made more on his signing bonus than most here will make in half a year. He's in his early 20's and he makes an entrance salary that's about 35% more than the average phatmasser.

He deserves what he makes. He works really hard, is extremely intelligent, and dedicated himself to being one of the most competitive applicants in one of the best business schools in the country. But I wonder how the phatmassers who are so quick to count these poor and disenfranchised as lazy and unworthy of being politically represented would feel when individuals in my friend's class decide that they the middle class citizen is too lazy and stupid to merit political representation. I mean, mean, most phatmassers aren't as intelligent and hard-working as he is (I count myself amongst their number), right ? So why should the mediocre get to vote next to someone like him who is exceptional?

[4588686]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1346638760' post='2477739']
You obviously aren't from Chicago.....
[/quote]

[url="http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/"]http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/[/url]