Great/grate Veils Of The Discalced Carmelite Nuns

[vee]

20 hours ago, graciandelamadrededios said:

Manila Massacre?  Which year?

None of the Carmels in the Philippines retained the usage of the great veils.  When I visited Manila Carmel, I was able to talk to the Prioresses and Nuns in the Parlor Grille sans spikes (the grille looks very old, and was painted dark brown) and they just wore the day veils - tucked under the scapular. 

 

1945

[graciandelamadrededios]

25 minutes ago, vee said:

1945

I see.It was probably during the war.  I have read a lot of massacre during the Japanese occupation in Manila, one of which is my alma mater, Adamson University administered by Vincentian Fathers and Brothers.  The Fathers and Brothers dead bodies were found on the creek.  Same happened with De La Salle University's Brothers of Christian School, also in Manila.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by graciandelamadrededios

[graciandelamadrededios]

Carmel connected to SSPX

 

During the Taking of the Veil by Sr. Theresa Carmela 15th February 2014 .

 

Sr. Theresa Carmela after the Taking of the Veil, 15th February 2014

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quasar]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 9:25 AM, graciandelamadrededios said:

I see.It was probably during the war.  I have read a lot of massacre during the Japanese occupation in Manila, one of which is my alma mater, Adamson University administered by Vincentian Fathers and Brothers.  The Fathers and Brothers dead bodies were found on the creek.  Same happened with De La Salle University's Brothers of Christian School, also in Manila.

 

How sad!  Were the brothers massacred by the Japanese?

[graciandelamadrededios]

Yes, its was horrible.

[graciandelamadrededios]

Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Poland - with their veils covering their faces - shorter version of the great veil

 

 

 

Shirred / Gathered Day Veil of Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Poland

[katarzyna]

Hello all :). The picture of the sisters with the veils covering their faces was taken at the Carmelite monastery in Lodz. It is the only Polish Carmelite monastery where this practice is still observed - and the only one following 1991 constitutions (out of all 23 carmels in Poland). The type of veil showed above is used in all carmels in Poland, apart from the monastery in Elblag, where the sisters have a bit different veil, it's not gathered above the forehead.

http://www.karmelelblag.pl/?galeria

Edited September 7, 2016 by katarzyna

[graciandelamadrededios]

5 minutes ago, katarzyna said:

Hello all :). The picture of the sisters with the veils covering their faces was taken at the Carmelite monastery in Lodz. It is the only Polish Carmelite monastery where this practice is still observed - and the only one following 1991 constitutions (out of all 23 carmels in Poland). The type of veil showed above is used in all carmels in Poland, apart from the monastery in Elblag, where the sisters have a bit different veil, it's not gathered above the forehead.

http://www.karmelelblag.pl/?galeria

you mean 1990 constitutions?

 

[katarzyna]

Yes! My mistake

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

5 minutes ago, katarzyna said:

Yes! My mistake

 

its okay 

 

17 minutes ago, katarzyna said:

Hello all :). The picture of the sisters with the veils covering their faces was taken at the Carmelite monastery in Lodz. It is the only Polish Carmelite monastery where this practice is still observed - and the only one following 1991 constitutions (out of all 23 carmels in Poland). The type of veil showed above is used in all carmels in Poland, apart from the monastery in Elblag, where the sisters have a bit different veil, it's not gathered above the forehead.

http://www.karmelelblag.pl/?galeria

I received some beautiful photos of Professed Nun and Novice from Elblag and Lodz Carmel many years ago.

One of their Carmels sent me a book which contains the history and origins of all  Carmels in Poland and their foreign daughter houses but it was written in Polish.

[katarzyna]

Perhaps this link will be interesting to you. Under "strony internetowe siostr" there is a list of links to the websites of the monasteries from the Krakow province. Unfortunately, most of the websites (if not all...) are available only in Polish, but under the "Galeria" you can find lots of pictures if you open their websites

http://www.karmel.pl/mniszki/index.php

And here there are links to the Warsaw province with the contact details to all the sisters' monasteries

http://karmelicibosi.pl/?page_id=392

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

55 minutes ago, katarzyna said:

Perhaps this link will be interesting to you. Under "strony internetowe siostr" there is a list of links to the websites of the monasteries from the Krakow province. Unfortunately, most of the websites (if not all...) are available only in Polish, but under the "Galeria" you can find lots of pictures if you open their websites

http://www.karmel.pl/mniszki/index.php

And here there are links to the Warsaw province with the contact details to all the sisters' monasteries

http://karmelicibosi.pl/?page_id=392

 

Thanks!  I already checked the first website you recommended and currently checking the second one.  

I normally just type Karmelitanki Bose and check each websites that appears.

[Therese1895]

On 7/13/2013 at 3:43 PM, Chiquitunga said:

For the JMJ Carmels, I have never seen them wear this large veil with the folds at the back as the great veil was, but only a more streamline one. At the enclosure ceremony in Elysburg they wore this one pictured below. I have heard they have two different outer veils, one for visiting in the parlor and then the Communion veil. But again, I am pretty sure they don't have this very large veil that falls on the back in a folds as Buffalo, Brooklyn & Alexandria do, or at least they don't wear them at occasions like making a foundation.

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28378419@N03/sets/72157622233735714/

 

 

My goodness, so many posts today on details about Carmel not necessary for our salvation  I think everyone else on VS are rolling their eyes, or getting a headache at least, oh well. sorry! 

The JMJ Carmels were the speakroom veils AND Communion veils! The ones pictured are the Communion veils from Holy Mass. the speakroom veils have the romantic flow-y folds that cascade down the back. Since it is prohibited, there wouldn't be any pictures online.

Actually, the Elysburg Carmel is the only one-so far that had brought back that custom. Having separate designs was put aside for a bit in the early foundation days of Valparaiso, and there are too many sisters right now to start remaking all the speakroom veils! (Over 40!!) And poor Kensington is so busy. I was in Elysburg for the best 2.5 years of my life. But so homesick... The traditional speakroom veils hit the upper leg in the back, and have a (never used) option of down to the collarbone in front. Happy to talk more about Carmel!!

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Thank you for sharing all of this Therese!! I would love to PM you!!  God reward you for preserving 2.5 years! 

Quick question.. I heard also that Elysburg was learning how to make the alpargatas as well, but not Valparaiso. Did they have them when you were there? 

I recently visited Avila by the way, and the nuns at San Jose make and sell really cute alpargatas for kids, with little kid designs on, them, hot pink and rainbow, etc. Of course I bought a pair (8 euro) 

[Therese1895]

Chiqui- 

Yes, Elysburg has been making alpargates for about four years now, with 100% handmade soles and all! Hemp threads. Neither of the other 2 Carmels are doing it quite yet. They are very comfortable, like slippers that tie around your ankles. We never wore them 'going out' though- they look too homemade! We also started using all Spanish wool and cottons for the habits from A Carmel in Spain, phasing out the old ones with new Spanish ones. Val is doing the same! Trying hard to be just like OHM!

Chiqui- 

Yes, Elysburg has been making alpargates for about four years now, with 100% handmade soles and all! Hemp threads. Neither of the other 2 Carmels are doing it quite yet. They are very comfortable, like slippers that tie around your ankles. We never wore them 'going out' though- they look too homemade! We also started using all Spanish wool and cottons for the habits from A Carmel in Spain, phasing out the old ones with new Spanish ones. Val is doing the same! Trying hard to be just like OHM! All clothes are also hand sewn (like needle and thread in your hand!) I loved it!!

Also, sorry for all the autoco-wrecked grammar/spelling!

[graciandelamadrededios]

On 7/13/2013 at 5:20 PM, AnneLine said:

I've never heard them called 'grate' veils -- I think it was a typo that has taken on a new life.  ;)  I've always heard and seen them referred to as 'great veils'.

 

If the only ones using them are the ones you mentioned, I think it is fair to say that the current OCDs aren't using them.  Those ladies, while I am sure well-intended, are technically not in Communion with us, unless something has changed...

 

One of the former prioresses at Cristo Rey (who just passed away on Pentecost this year, and was one of the holiest people I have ever met!) told me she was VERY glad tht they had done away with the face veil.  She felt they were unsafe, even though they may have been 'filmy'.   She told me at one point when they were still worn, she had been sent around with a workman who was working inside the enclosure.  (She was one of the few truly bilingual sisters, and was very much in the forefront of the construction of the Cristo Rey monastery for that reason in the 1950s.)   She said that she had an 'odd feeling' about him while she accompanied him with the hand bell (let me know if you don't understand that reference), although he was verbally pleasant enough.  She couldn't see too much through that veil... but she accompanied him as he moved through the house.  After he had left, still feeling something just wasn't right, she went back and found he had left open bowls of acid all over the place. 

 

She had been unable to see him doing it through the veil.

 

Sometimes there really are practical reasons for re-considering some of those customs....

 

The Cristo Rey Nuns and the Dallas Nuns are both still wearing the 'communion veil' when in the parlor.  

 

 

When the Sisters accompanied a workman within the enclosure - she rings the handbell to warn that the Sisters to stay away or stay in their cells.  If this is not possible, the Sisters has to pull down her veil in front of her face.