Interview With Pope Francis In America Magazine

[PhuturePriest]

Did you know that large amounts of people hated Pope John Paul II? I wouldn't be surprised if the same people that object to Pope Francis objected to Pope John Paul II as well.

[Nihil Obstat]

Did you know that large amounts of people hated Pope John Paul II? I wouldn't be surprised if the same people that object to Pope Francis objected to Pope John Paul II as well.

John Paul II had his fair share of issues. Some appointments he made and some of the people in whom he placed his trust turned out to be highly ill-advised.

No pope will be perfect, and it is entirely ok to recognize that.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I don't believe this number for one minute. 

 

Lol NFP counts as birth control.

[AugustineA]

My biggest worry for the Roman Church in all of this is that Christ told his followers to expect to be hated. Being widely loved is not necessarily a bad thing, but considering the source of some of the accolades...

 

Yes, I was thinking the same thing earlier actually.

[Ice_nine]

Lol NFP counts as birth control.

 

err, I guess it depends on how you look at it. If people use it to limit the number of offspring then sure it's birth control, but I also think that's an inappropriate use of NFP. In my humble opinion I think there's too much obsessive planning going on around creating a family, and it's probably overused.

 

But I also think that was quoting a statistic that turned out to be rather disingenuous. from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unequallyyoked/2012/02/parsing-that-98-of-catholics-use-contraception-figure.html

 

Who was polled?

The survey done by Guttmacher didn’t include all women.  Only women who met these three criteria were included in the computation

1. Between the ages of 15-44
2. Not pregnant, post-partum, or trying to get pregnant at the time of the survey
3. Sexually active (had sex at some point in the last three months)

 

 

 

 

ermagherd! 98% of the sample who wasn't trying to get pregnant used contraception?!

 

In any case even if it were really true that 98% of married catholics who attend mass weekly use contraception, then 98% are wrong.  The church is not a democracy, I know that's a really hard pill to swallow (hardee har har) but it's what it is.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Ice_nine

[Apteka]

Lol at the fact we have 2 pages dedicated to this. Why are two atheists spending their saturday night on a Catholic forum?

 

 

I'll be gone once I get drunk enough not to be bored while out.  

 

:pinch:

 

I usually phatmass when I'm out.

"Hey what are you doing on your phone?"

"I'm on a Catholic rap forum."

"No really. What are you doing?"
 

 

 

You guys seriously browse phatmass while being out on a Saturday night?

 

:hehe:

[Apotheoun]

Lol NFP counts as birth control.

I agree. NFP is a form of birth control because its intended purpose is to either space the births of children or prevent conception altogether.

[Era Might]

Reading the interview now. I don't get how anyone can read that and not be moved by it. It is an interview with a man who is deeply shaped by not only the Gospel, but by the spirituality of his order. He strikes me very much as a Jesuit, as a non-diocesan priest. It puts his entire papacy into context. He thinks entirely differently about things. And I was humbled by his main point, especially when he talked about homosexuals, about how the proclamation of mercy and love, and friendship, is always first. When everyone is looking for Catechism quotes, he's writing on the ground and asking, "Woman, has no one condemned you?" It's a remarkable interview, and not for any reasons the press wishes it was. And if someone approaches this to make sure he hits the right Catechism notes, they're going to be disappointed. He's speaking on a higher level than people are used to. I think he hit the nail on the head when he spoke of the difference between institutional and prophetic. It's unfortunate if someone comes away from this with petty disagreements about doctrine and organization. He strikes me very much as a prophetic soul, in a very humble way. There is nothing phony about the man.

 

Pope Francis is the first pontiff from a religious order since the Camaldolese monk Gregory XVI, who was elected in 1831. I ask: “What is the specific place of religious men and women in the church of today?”

“Religious men and women are prophets,” says the pope. “They are those who have chosen a following of Jesus that imitates his life in obedience to the Father, poverty, community life and chastity. In this sense, the vows cannot end up being caricatures; otherwise, for example, community life becomes hell, and chastity becomes a way of life for unfruitful bachelors. The vow of chastity must be a vow of fruitfulness. In the church, the religious are called to be prophets in particular by demonstrating how Jesus lived on this earth, and to proclaim how the kingdom of God will be in its perfection. A religious must never give up prophecy. This does not mean opposing the hierarchical part of the church, although the prophetic function and the hierarchical structure do not coincide. I am talking about a proposal that is always positive, but it should not cause timidity. Let us think about what so many great saints, monks and religious men and women have done, from St. Anthony the Abbot onward. Being prophets may sometimes imply making waves. I do not know how to put it.... Prophecy makes noise, uproar, some say ‘a mess.’ But in reality, the charism of religious people is like yeast: prophecy announces the spirit of the Gospel.”

[Apotheoun]

That is an interesting take on the interview, although I do not share that perspective.

[Era Might]

Wow, very insightful (and prophetic):

 

 

 

“If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists­—they have a static and inward-directed view of things. In this way, faith becomes an ideology among other ideologies. I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life. God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed by vices, drugs or anything else—God is in this person’s life. You can, you must try to seek God in every human life. Although the life of a person is a land full of thorns and weeds, there is always a space in which the good seed can grow. You have to trust God.”

Edited September 23, 2013 by Era Might

[Era Might]

“When it comes to social issues, it is one thing to have a meeting to study the problem of drugs in a slum neighborhood and quite another thing to go there, live there and understand the problem from the inside and study it. There is a brilliant letter by Father Arrupe to the Centers for Social Research and Action on poverty, in which he says clearly that one cannot speak of poverty if one does not experience poverty, with a direct connection to the places in which there is poverty. The word insertion is dangerous because some religious have taken it as a fad, and disasters have occurred because of a lack of discernment. But it is truly important.”

“The frontiers are many. Let us think of the religious sisters living in hospitals. They live on the frontier. I am alive because of one of them. When I went through my lung disease at the hospital, the doctor gave me penicillin and streptomycin in certain doses. The sister who was on duty tripled my doses because she was daringly astute; she knew what to do because she was with ill people all day. The doctor, who really was a good one, lived in his laboratory; the sister lived on the frontier and was in dialogue with it every day. Domesticating the frontier means just talking from a remote location, locking yourself up in a laboratory. Laboratories are useful, but reflection for us must always start from experience.”

[Apotheoun]

I am not a Roman Catholic so I see no need for "Christian restorationism", nor am I attracted to legalism, but I am for the Gospel, and repentance is a central component of Christ's message. As the Lord said when He began His ministry: "The time is accomplished, the kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe in the Gospel." Conversion without moral reformation is a mere fiction. Perhaps that is all people in Western societies want, i.e., an easy fictitious "gospel", but I find that unsatisfying, because you see I am a sinner in constant need of repentance, and what I do not need is a hierarch saying that the Church has become obsessed on certain hot button moral issues. Our society is most certainly obsessed with immorality, but I would not describe the Church as obsessed. Moreover, if a man's preaching of the message of Christ does not talk about repentance and moral reformation, so that those who come to Christ follow the way of life, instead of the way of death, then it is clear that the message being preached is no longer the true Gospel of Christ. And by the way it is not about "casting stones" at others, but about speaking the truth to others, which is why Christ forgave the woman caught in adultery, and then said, "Go and sin no more." That is the whole Gospel, and not the truncated version promoted by some in the modern world.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Era Might]

I am not a Roman Catholic so I see no need for "Christian restorationism", nor am I attracted to legalism, but I am for the Gospel, and repentance is a central component of Christ's message. As the Lord said when He began His ministry: "The time is accomplished, the kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe in the Gospel." Conversion without moral reformation is a mere fiction. Perhaps that is all people in Western societies want, i.e., an easy fictitious "gospel", but I find that unsatisfying, because you see I am a sinner in constant need of repentance, and what I do not need is a hierarch saying that the Church has become obsessed on certain hot button moral issues. Our society is most certainly obsessed with immorality, but I would not describe the Church as obsessed. Moreover, if a man's preaching of the message of Christ does not talk about repentance and moral reformation, so that those who come to Christ follow the way of life, instead of the way of death, then it is clear that the message being preached is no longer the true Gospel of Christ. And by the way it is not about "casting stones" at others, but about speaking the truth to others, which is why Christ forgave the woman caught in adultery, and then said, "Go and sin no more." That is the whole Gospel, and not the truncated version promoted by some in the modern world.

 

Pope Francis has been Catholic his whole life, comes from a huge Catholic family, is a Jesuit, and happens to be Pope. His immersion in what it means to be Catholic is beautifully evident in this interview, as he ranges from history to theology to literature, and to the organization he also knows from the inside out. I know you've read a few books, but I suggest you read the interview and listen, rather than construct your defense. A wise man is speaking.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

I am glad that Pope Francis has been Catholic all his life. Ted Kennedy was Catholic all his life, and he too was from a big Catholic family, but that does not mean that I have agree with everything that Ted Kennedy said, and the same is true about Pope Francis. Have popes been wrong in the past? Yes. Have popes even been heretics in the past? Yes. So just because he says something in an interview it does not follow that I must blindly assent to his - as I see it - unfounded opinions. Quite honestly I think he is wrong on certain issues. Do I think everything he said in the interview is bad? No. I liked what he had to say about synodality, but I will wait to see if he actually follows through with what he said on that topic. He has - as an Orthodox friend of mine pointed out recently - been all talk so far, and little action.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Era Might]

I am glad that Pope Francis has been Catholic all his life. Ted Kennedy was Catholic all his life, and he too was from a big Catholic family, but that does not mean that I have agree with everything that Ted Kennedy said, and the same is true about Pope Francis. Have popes been wrong in the past? Yes. Have popes even been heretics in the past? Yes. So just because he says something in an interview it does not follow that I must blindly assent to his - as I see it - unfounded opinions. Quite honestly I think he is wrong on certain issues. Do I think everything he said in the interview is bad? No. I liked what he had to say about synodality, but I will wait to see if he actually follows through with what he said on that topic. He has - as an Orthodox friend of my pointed out recently - been all talk so far, and little action.

 

Um, Pope Francis lives a life of vowed poverty, chastity, and obedience. The man has been living a life of action his whole life. It's unfortunate that you can't appreciate the witness of a man who has lived and thought deeply about following Christ. I don't agree with everything he says either, but I don't need to agree with everything someone says to recognize when something special has come along, and indeed, what Pope Francis says in this interview is very prophetic.