Spiritual Direction - Should You Pay For It?

[add]

paying for a SD is disturbing.  its like paying someone to be your friend.

  mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters give it away for free, if you let them

a spouse will too, if your fortunate enough to   have one

 

[AccountDeleted]

paying for a SD is disturbing.  its like paying someone to be your friend.

  mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters give it away for free, if you let them

a spouse will too, if your fortunate enough to   have one

 

 

Well, I do understand that if a person gives up their valuable time to help you, especially if they are NOT family and need to earn their own income, then it would be good to compensate them in some way.

 

I think what I find strange though is that spiritual direction (around here) seems to come with a SET fee regardless of the person's situation.

 

In Melbourne, we have counseling services that provide therapeutic counseling by trained professionals, usually psychologists. They offer these services to anyone at a fee based on what they call a 'sliding scale', depending on income. so a person who earns a lot, pays more than a person who is unemployed. They do have a minimum charge of $35 per session, but even then, if the situation is urgent and the person has no money, they will waive the fee.

 

So a person in Melbourne can afford secular therapeutic counseling if they are poor, but not spiritual direction. What is wrong with this picture? Not one of the spiritual directors I contacted made allowances for someone on a low fixed income.

 

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.......

[add]

My mom is my spiritual director
She was brutally honest and tuff If need be but always had my best interest at heart
She passed on a few years ago but not her spirit that dwells within me.

Respect your birth Mom whether or not she's still on earth and let her be your guide.

[Spem in alium]

I've had two SDs (both religious sisters, one in the US and one in Australia) and had different experiences with each. 

When I inquired into spiritual direction in the US, a donation was suggested based on how much I could afford (which wasn't a heap, given that I was a student and on exchange, so had limited funds). I gave my SD a small donation each time, which she was grateful for and which she never made me feel was obligatory.

 

The SD I have now usually charges around $50 for an hour-long session - so a fee. When I first heard about that, it did seem steep and I was worried I wouldn't be able to afford it (again, given I'm a student). Because of the circumstances of my inquiry into spiritual direction, my SD kindly made it free for me. 

 

I really value spiritual direction and would certainly recommend it to anyone interested, but it is my thought that any payment should be made on a voluntary basis and as a donation. If however, a fee is charged, in my view it shouldn't be as high as $50.

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

My mom is my spiritual director
She was brutally honest and tuff If need be but always had my best interest at heart
She passed on a few years ago but not her spirit that dwells within me.

Respect your birth Mom whether or not she's still on earth and let her be your guide.

 

 

My mother died a long time ago. I adored her and love her still but I could never take spiritual direction from her because she not only wasn't a Catholic, she was intensely anti-religion. She was a deeply loving and giving person and almost a secular saint in her own way, but she would not be a good person to ask about vocational discernment of religious life. The one time I did discuss becoming a nun with her, I was in my mid twenties and she became very distressed, saying that if I became a nun, she would feel that I had wasted my life. She wasn't anti-God mind you, just anti-organized religion.

 

I pray that she is with Jesus now - my only hope for her being that if she really knew Him, then she would have loved Him as I do and wanted to follow Him - and I can't imagine Jesus not loving her for the goodness and love that she manifested to others.

 

So, respect my mother, yes, love my mother, yes, but let her be my guide in spiritual matters? No. I will try to emulate her kindness and selflessness, but I don't think having her as an SD is such a great idea. :)  If I want to choose someone who has left this world, then I choose Jesus Himself. :love:

[Catherine Therese]

Simony is WRONG. End of story. 

Spiritual goods are not for sale. 

 

 

[blazeingstar]

Simony is WRONG. End of story. 

Spiritual goods are not for sale. 

 

So would you say that paying for confirmation classes or first communication class is wrong?  It's upwards of $300 for a year of religious ed. (sticker price, anyone who indicates they are in need in any way gets a deal)

 

I see a multisided problem here:

 

1)a lack of appreciation and support of religious

2) an ever increasing confusion between spirituality and psychology; leading to spiritual directors needing to be educated in both theology and psychology in order to aptly spiritually direct (costly)

3) the lack of respect for religious' persons time and energy 

4) the lack of respect of the of need for spiritual direction in face of poverty (eg, prescription to Maslow's theories)

5) lack of parish and thus,  pastoral care on the part of the religious

6) the fear of additional needs that come along with counseling the poor.

 

 

I think that the organization that you are looking to has some really big red flags, however, as a general statement, I think that offering a donation or otherwise "paying" for spiritual counseling is a good habit to get into.

 

Catholics can be really stingy when it comes to their money, and it leaves our priests and religious in a bad place.   I know some monks who make bread, they have taken a vow of poverty and live it, but they also are able to fund retreat houses and many outreaches which parishes and even whole dioceses have had to let go by the wayside due to lack of funds.  My own dioceses is doing better than others, but even so the repainting and repair of the retired priests' home had to be done by volunteers because there was simply no money to hire a painter. (and we all contributed to the cost of paint.)

 

If we can't afford to re-paint the halls of a retired priest's home after 15 years, I don't see HOW we could run a retreat/spiritual guidance center that was simply open to the public without any fees involved. 

[Catherine Therese]

So would you say that paying for confirmation classes or first communication class is wrong?  It's upwards of $300 for a year of religious ed. (sticker price, anyone who indicates they are in need in any way gets a deal)

 

In Australia (thanks be to God) the classes for those preparing to receive their sacraments are free. If there are physical materials involved, these are paid for in most cases, or offered as a gift in others, but in principle I would have thought there is nothing wrong with paying for these PHYSICAL goods associated with the spiritual good.

 

I am ALL ABOUT people with means giving generous donations. But people without means should not have to BEG for fees to be waived, or be made to feel that they are in enormous debt. By assigning a fee, the onus is on the poor person to beg rather than on the rich person to give. Sounds a little unjust to me. 

 

I'm grateful that in my area, these things are rightly offered not just as "services" which in this day and age suggests a billable, temporal, business transaction, but as the free gift of the apostolate of those offering it. Because true goodness is diffusive, and the love of God overflows in us when it is truly present, many of those who are genuinely touched by these things give not just of their surplus but of their very living to help ensure the availability of these things for everyone, regardless of their financial status. Often you will find the financially poorer recipients giving generously of their time and other gifts in their effort to give back what they can.

 

I also agree with you that as a Catholic community, there are many who have lost a sense of what it is to truly give when one can. We definitely need to solicit donations rather than just wait for them to appear, in this day and age. BUT, attaching a formal, advertised monetary fee to any spiritual good is simony, which is a sin.

 

Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that God speaks. 

We give bread to the poor without a second thought or a demand of money. How much more important to give them food for their soul?

[AccountDeleted]

So would you say that paying for confirmation classes or first communication class is wrong?  It's upwards of $300 for a year of religious ed. (sticker price, anyone who indicates they are in need in any way gets a deal)

 

I see a multisided problem here:

 

1)a lack of appreciation and support of religious

2) an ever increasing confusion between spirituality and psychology; leading to spiritual directors needing to be educated in both theology and psychology in order to aptly spiritually direct (costly)

3) the lack of respect for religious' persons time and energy 

4) the lack of respect of the of need for spiritual direction in face of poverty (eg, prescription to Maslow's theories)

5) lack of parish and thus,  pastoral care on the part of the religious

6) the fear of additional needs that come along with counseling the poor.

 

 

I think that the organization that you are looking to has some really big red flags, however, as a general statement, I think that offering a donation or otherwise "paying" for spiritual counseling is a good habit to get into.

 

Catholics can be really stingy when it comes to their money, and it leaves our priests and religious in a bad place.   I know some monks who make bread, they have taken a vow of poverty and live it, but they also are able to fund retreat houses and many outreaches which parishes and even whole dioceses have had to let go by the wayside due to lack of funds.  My own dioceses is doing better than others, but even so the repainting and repair of the retired priests' home had to be done by volunteers because there was simply no money to hire a painter. (and we all contributed to the cost of paint.)

 

If we can't afford to re-paint the halls of a retired priest's home after 15 years, I don't see HOW we could run a retreat/spiritual guidance center that was simply open to the public without any fees involved. 

 

 

Yes, I do say that paying for confirmation classes or first communion (I think you meant) is wrong. I had no idea this was even going on. It doesn't happen in Australia and if it does in the US, shudder. It sounds like Scientology or some cult.

 

I never paid for conversion, and I sure hate the idea of anyone having to pay to learn about the faith and prepare for the Sacraments.

 

As for paying for someone's time, that depends on what their role is and whether what they do is considered part of their duties, or is a voluntary role.

 

As I have said before, I don't object to donations but there are some of us who are too poor to pay a set fee, especially if that set fee is very high. For me $50 is 20% of my weekly income and if I paid it on a regular basis, I would have to either stop paying rent or give up eating. Now, if I were earning a good salary, then I would like to donate, and have always done so when possible. But spiritual things should not be only available to the financially well off.

[blazeingstar]

In Australia (thanks be to God) the classes for those preparing to receive their sacraments are free. If there are physical materials involved, these are paid for in most cases, or offered as a gift in others, but in principle I would have thought there is nothing wrong with paying for these PHYSICAL goods associated with the spiritual good.

 

I am ALL ABOUT people with means giving generous donations. But people without means should not have to BEG for fees to be waived, or be made to feel that they are in enormous debt. By assigning a fee, the onus is on the poor person to beg rather than on the rich person to give. Sounds a little unjust to me. 

 

I'm grateful that in my area, these things are rightly offered not just as "services" which in this day and age suggests a billable, temporal, business transaction, but as the free gift of the apostolate of those offering it. Because true goodness is diffusive, and the love of God overflows in us when it is truly present, many of those who are genuinely touched by these things give not just of their surplus but of their very living to help ensure the availability of these things for everyone, regardless of their financial status. Often you will find the financially poorer recipients giving generously of their time and other gifts in their effort to give back what they can.

 

I also agree with you that as a Catholic community, there are many who have lost a sense of what it is to truly give when one can. We definitely need to solicit donations rather than just wait for them to appear, in this day and age. BUT, attaching a formal, advertised monetary fee to any spiritual good is simony, which is a sin.

 

Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that God speaks. 

We give bread to the poor without a second thought or a demand of money. How much more important to give them food for their soul?

 

Again churches are operating in the red.  The $300 allows for book, materials and heating the building these are pretty desperate times.  While CCD is paid, ironically, RCIA is free, however, those people tend to frequent Mass and regularly donate...whereas the parents of children in CCD often do not.  ( think some of the money goes to the secretary of the parish to hunt down the kids after they missed sessions).

 

Regular parishioners often get it free

 

 

Yes, I do say that paying for confirmation classes or first communion (I think you meant) is wrong. I had no idea this was even going on. It doesn't happen in Australia and if it does in the US, shudder. It sounds like Scientology or some cult.

 

I never paid for conversion, and I sure hate the idea of anyone having to pay to learn about the faith and prepare for the Sacraments.

 

As for paying for someone's time, that depends on what their role is and whether what they do is considered part of their duties, or is a voluntary role.

 

As I have said before, I don't object to donations but there are some of us who are too poor to pay a set fee, especially if that set fee is very high. For me $50 is 20% of my weekly income and if I paid it on a regular basis, I would have to either stop paying rent or give up eating. Now, if I were earning a good salary, then I would like to donate, and have always done so when possible. But spiritual things should not be only available to the financially well off.

 

The inflexibility of this organization is very concerning.  They should be flexible and open to helping the poor. But I do not agree that setting a value for people who have the means to do so is wrong.

Edited October 17, 2013 by blazeingstar

[Catherine Therese]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

 

2121 Simony is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things.⁵³ To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money!"⁵⁴ Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay."⁵⁵ It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment.

2122 The minister should ask nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by the competent authority, always being careful that the needy are not deprived of the help of the sacraments because of their poverty."⁵⁶ The competent authority determines these "offerings" in accordance with the principle that the Christian people ought to contribute to the support of the Church's ministers. "The laborer deserves his food."⁵⁷

 

I understand that 2122 speaks particularly of the Sacraments, but the principle extends to all spiritual goods. We receive without pay, we give without pay. 

 

John Cassian, the spiritual director par excellence, associates the practice of such simony with the sin of avarice.   :pirate2: 

 

^{When it comes down to it, though, it really doesn't matter at all how REASONABLE it appears to we poor earthly creatures to charge money for spiritual direction, and it really doesn't matter at all how needy a particular parish may be. Mother Teresa started with $2 and her trust in providence saw great things happen through the generosity of people whom the Lord moved to donate. Our problem, I feel, is that we don't trust in the Providence of the Father. How full are the psalms of couplets reminding us not to trust to horses or our own strength, but to trust to the Lord?}

 

^{From the Blue Letter Bible (RSV):}

 

 Mat 7:9

Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?

 Mat 7:10

Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?

 Mat 7:11

If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

 

 

We need all to give what we can when we can (and to be honest with ourselves and generous with the Church). 

And then we need to trust. We will always have what we need. And if we don't receive it, having asked the Father, then we don't really need it... He has another way forward for us. But He will always provide. 

 

Taxing the poor is the ugly lot of the State, not of the Church.  :P (That was me attempting to be FUNNY and has absolutely no political slant at all - our politics here in Australia is totally different... so can I please trust that everyone will give me a sympathy laugh for my attempt at humour and take no offence?) 

[blazeingstar]

 

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

 

2121 Simony is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things.⁵³ To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money!"⁵⁴ Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay."⁵⁵ It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment.

2122 The minister should ask nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by the competent authority, always being careful that the needy are not deprived of the help of the sacraments because of their poverty."⁵⁶ The competent authority determines these "offerings" in accordance with the principle that the Christian people ought to contribute to the support of the Church's ministers. "The laborer deserves his food."⁵⁷

 

I understand that 2122 speaks particularly of the Sacraments, but the principle extends to all spiritual goods. We receive without pay, we give without pay. 

 

John Cassian, the spiritual director par excellence, associates the practice of such simony with the sin of avarice.   :pirate2: 

 

^{When it comes down to it, though, it really doesn't matter at all how REASONABLE it appears to we poor earthly creatures to charge money for spiritual direction, and it really doesn't matter at all how needy a particular parish may be. Mother Teresa started with $2 and her trust in providence saw great things happen through the generosity of people whom the Lord moved to donate. Our problem, I feel, is that we don't trust in the Providence of the Father. How full are the psalms of couplets reminding us not to trust to horses or our own strength, but to trust to the Lord?}

 

^{From the Blue Letter Bible (RSV):}

 

 Mat 7:9

Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?

 Mat 7:10

Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?

 Mat 7:11

If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

 

 

We need all to give what we can when we can (and to be honest with ourselves and generous with the Church). 

And then we need to trust. We will always have what we need. And if we don't receive it, having asked the Father, then we don't really need it... He has another way forward for us. But He will always provide. 

 

Taxing the poor is the ugly lot of the State, not of the Church.  :P (That was me attempting to be FUNNY and has absolutely no political slant at all - our politics here in Australia is totally different... so can I please trust that everyone will give me a sympathy laugh for my attempt at humour and take no offence?) 

 

 

This is not taxing the poor.  

 

The competent authority determines these "offerings" in accordance with the principle that the Christian people ought to contribute to the support of the Church's ministers. "The laborer deserves his food."⁵⁷

 

Clearly if the money is well thought out it is not simony.  You are indicating that by charging for Religious Education or other things that should be given, by trying not to go further into debt, Catholic churches are not being faithful.  This simply isn't true.  Pauline Media deserves money for their books, the janitor/maintenance man deserves money for cleaning, the oil company deserves money for it's heat.  The spirtual center has physical needs and to me the cost would indicate that they are simply not being met.  However, in the case of the one you're speaking of, the lack of williness to work with the poor is a HUGE red flag.  But charging money is clearly allowed by the CCC.

[AnneLine]

I've been praying over this one, because I do spiritual direction and counseling, and yes, I do ask for a stipend/charge for it.  But I am also troubled by a center that has nothing resembling a sliding scale or scholarships or whatever available.  Even the more expensive places out here (which isn't me!) have those options.

 

The thing that I think people forget is that our priests and religious DO get a subsidy -- a place to live, food on the table, medical insurance, car allowance or transit allowance.  No body gives me (or other lay people doing this work) anything like that unless they are also paid a salary.  And that costs money.  And if you are working with an individual practitioner, a lay person involved in a ministry like this, all that money is for is to make the ministry possible.  Trust me, I'm not getting rich on this... I am probably losing money.... and we aren't even talking about the hours and hours of my week that goes into this!

 

And to put this into context.... I have a master's degree, and have done a spiritual direction training course.   I had to pay for the first, and had to contribute toward the second (my parish paid for part of it).   I am still paying off my schooling.  I am required to hold malpractice insurance, and I have to keep my counseling memberships up EVEN THOUGH I don't have more than a handful of counseling clients -- most of my people are doing spiritual direction.  Together, the insurance and professional stuff (and required continuing education classes) run to $1000 per year or more.   Oh.. .and I have to pay taxes!!!!   No one pays for any of those....  

 

At least half of my directees are people coming into or going out of religious life or seminaries ... and most of them have nothing, and I charge them nothing or almost nothing.  A lot of the time I provide them books and materials free of charge.

 

But I do understand why and how this can be troubling for people... I was horrified myself when I first encountered the concept... until I realized that it isn't the religious good you are paying for, it is the support system that makes that good available.  Does that make any sense?

 

 

.

Edited October 17, 2013 by AnneLine

[blazeingstar]

I've been praying over this one, because I do spiritual direction and counseling, and yes, I do ask for a stipend/charge for it.  But I am also troubled by a center that has nothing resembling a sliding scale or scholarships or whatever available.  Even the more expensive places out here (which isn't me!) have those options.

 

The thing that I think people forget is that our priests and religious DO get a subsidy -- a place to live, food on the table, medical insurance, car allowance or transit allowance.  No body gives me (or other lay people doing this work) anything like that unless they are also paid a salary.  And that costs money.  And if you are working with an individual practitioner, a lay person involved in a ministry like this, all that money is for is to make the ministry possible.  Trust me, I'm not getting rich on this... I am probably losing money.... and we aren't even talking about the hours and hours of my week that goes into this!

 

And to put this into context.... I have a master's degree, and have done a spiritual direction training course.   I had to pay for the first, and had to contribute toward the second (my parish paid for part of it).   I am still paying off my schooling.  I am required to hold malpractice insurance, and I have to keep my counseling memberships up EVEN THOUGH I don't have more than a handful of counseling clients -- most of my people are doing spiritual direction.  Together, the insurance and professional stuff (and required continuing education classes) run to $1000 per year or more.   Oh.. .and I have to pay taxes!!!!   No one pays for any of those....  

 

At least half of my directees are people coming into or going out of religious life or seminaries ... and most of them have nothing, and I charge them nothing or almost nothing.  A lot of the time I provide them books and materials free of charge.

 

But I do understand why and how this can be troubling for people... I was horrified myself when I first encountered the concept... until I realized that it isn't the religious good you are paying for, it is the support system that makes that good available.  Does that make any sense?

 

 

.

 

 

The hidden costs are ENORMOUS.  And dioceses priests, while there are some who have nice cars or such, certainly aren't rich.  Thats not even to mention those priests and brothers stationed in parishes but who are religious.

 

So like you my verdict is.  Problematic as a whole?  No.  Is this organization problematic?  Sounds like it.

[AnneLine]

Yeah, it is not as easy as it sounds.   Kind of like education in general.  Or the cost of just running a parish each week!  Seems horrendously expensive.... but.... yeah.