Private Vows in The Laity/Spirituality

[Guest]

Quote

 

Since God intends to make you like Jesus, he will take you through the same experiences Jesus went through. That includes loneliness, temptation, stress, criticism, rejection, and many other problems.
- Rick Warren

(And He is with us throughout, to help us carry our burdens.)

 

 

 

 

This Pastor certainly has some creative and original thinking at times and I like the way he often quotes Scripture as source material for his thinking.  Some excellent thoughts on mental illness too.

",Nothing man-made is going to last forever", Pastor Rick commented, and I think a mistake that can be made is that His Church, in lasting forever as it will, must be to appearance etc. today and tomorrow exactly the same as yesterday.  It is easy to forget that anything that never changes on our earthly world is dead, by the very nature of never changing, it is dead.  It has to be.  Growth IS change, if I think about it.  And I did have to think about it for quite a while before I got it.

I do think it a quite interesting concept flowing from ..........that The Church must never change.  That would be to want the death of The Church since it could no longer be The Church; no longer the Living Mystical Body of Christ on earth.  But don't take that to the ridiculous.  

I do try to not throw out a baby with bathwater.  Reminds me of a joke:  An Islamic person goes to Heaven.   Jesus is showing the person the way around Heaven.  They come to a long high wall and Jesus falls silent.  

Islamic person:  "What is the high wall about, Jesus?"

Jesus: "Shhh!  Behind the wall are our Catholics and they think they are the only ones up here."

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

creating text

Just worked out how to do spoiler...........well, I think so!

[Shelby]

Hi Barb! 

It's nice to meet you, I'm new!

I read "Single for a greater purpose" and, I thought to look into Private Vows. 

I have some questions, and I think you would be the go-to person. Until, I talk to my Priest, and get some spiritual direction somewhere down the road.

I read about your journey when you were arranging things for your day and I thought it was absolutely wonderful that you shared that. It helped me understand that I could do it too! 

Anyway, I was wondering, if you have to do anything as a daily routine, after you do your Private Vows?

Because, I was looking into Consecrate Virginity before, and read they have to do Liturgy of the Hours everyday and go to Daily Mass whenever possible. Do those who make Private vows, have to do that too? 

I'll be back with more questions!

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

On 10/5/2021 at 4:58 AM, Shelby said:

Hi Barb! 

It's nice to meet you, I'm new!

............edited for space..............

Hi Shelby, welcome to Phatmass and nice to meet you also.  Apologies it has taken a few days to respond.

I read about your journey when you were arranging things for your day and I thought it was absolutely wonderful that you shared that. It helped me understand that I could do it too! 

I am glad my thread has helped you   Mine is hands on experience from Adelaide in South Australia.  We have an expert on Phatmass, who is @Sponsa-Christi.  She is a consecrated virgin.  Sponsa is a long time member here.  She is knowledgeable on many matters Catholic especially related to vocations.  Here is a link to her commentary on private vows http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-do-i-make-private-vow.html  There may be more on private vows on her blog.

Anyway, I was wondering, if you have to do anything as a daily routine, after you do your Private Vows?

No.  Private Vows are strictly between yourself and God.  It is also up to you whether you keep your vows private or not.  "Private" in Private Vows is in this instance a Canon Law term to distinguish from Public Vows, it does not mean that your vows must be kept private.  My SD did ask me to write a rule of life for myself.

Here is a link to Canon Law on the subject of Vows: https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib4-cann1191-1204_en.html#CHAPTER_I.

Because, I was looking into Consecrate Virginity before, and read they have to do Liturgy of the Hours everyday and go to Daily Mass whenever possible. Do those who make Private vows, have to do that too? 

There is no "have to" with Private Vows, other than, of course, that you keep your Vows. Private Vows come under the Virtue of Religion.

You are very wise indeed to have spiritual direction and best on an ongoing basis.  With Private Vows there is no formal support from The Church other than, of course, the normal spiritual support to the Laity.  Under Private Vows one remains fully in the Laity in every way.

The other matter is that you would be most wise indeed to fully understand Private Vows before making them.  The Vows can be made strictly privately or at a Home Mass as I have done.  Private Vows are not at all "the easy way" as I have read at times.  It is the same as with any vocation, there are the ups and downs.  The Good Lord sends into every life journey what is necessary for great holiness - it is a question of response to Him.   My Home Mass was celebrated by my SD who was a priest religious.  He is no dec'd. I have read of some women who have made them at a weekday Mass.  At my Home Mass I had my family and a few friends only.

The content of my private vow of obedience is spelt out in my rule of life - and it is to my rule of life I vow obedience.  It is not slave-like obedience, rather my rule states that one is to use common sense.  It was St Albert of Jerusalem, of Carmelite fame and sanctity, who wrote that common sense is the guide of all the virtues.

I'll be back with more questions!

Ask away, Shelby.  I will do what I can to respond.  

Edit: Shelby, I would add that if you are eligible for Consecrated Virginity, which is a Public Vow in The Church, it is a great honor The Lord has gifted.  If you are eligible for CV, were it me I would be very careful to discern with spiritual guidance whether I am called to Consecrated Virginity or to Private Vows.  In Public Vows, The Church formally consecrates in a quite public manner for the whole Church.  In private vows one consecrates oneself.

[BarbTherese]

When I completed my post to Shelby, I realized I was not logged in.  I did not want to loose what I had written and so created, against the rules I know, BarbTherese.  I have no idea why I was logged out and it is not only happening on Phatmass.  Probably Google thinking it knows good, better and best. 

[Guest]

I am trying to get back to BarbaraTherese !!!   I have logged out of BarbTherese and logged in I hope as BarbaraTherese.

What St Jerome is saying in my book is that once one improves on the last time, that is one's best.  The quest then is to do better than the last time, which was one's best back then.

I did it !!! 

Edited October 8, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

From @Sponsa-Christi blog entry, which I have just read in full:  "My own thought is that women who feel called to live as privately-vowed laypeople should probably err on the side of being discreet about their commitment. Mainly, this is because I think it’s important not to confuse the faithful, and someone who was very open about making a private vow could easily tend to give the impression that she was in some sort of canonical state of consecrated life."

How I dealt with the above was I wrote a paper, with quotations from Church Documents, on what Private Vows are/are not and I was most careful to explain the vows are something between God and myself with nothing formal in The Church, hence not canonical/consecrated state- that one remains in the Laity in every single way.  I put copies of my paper on the seats.

I did experience a distinct call to private vows.  In fact, when I asked my priest religious and theologian lecturing in our seminary in theology, and I was quite hesitant, about making privately the vows, I had no idea there was such a classification - nor had I ever heard of it.  Generally speaking, I don't think anyone did know of it.  It was back 45 years or so ago.  I am now almost 76 years of age.  He did advise me to seek annulment to be "completely free" (his term) to vow privately to the evangelical counsels.  That was the road I took.  Father also asked me to write a rule of life and it was in an exercise book and hand written (no computer nor typewriter back then) labored and long process for me.  He approved the rule and when I told him I had left it on a bus stop and lost it, he could not stop laughing.  I was not at all impressed!   He was the most holy man and priest I have ever known.  He died probably 35 years or so back then of cancer.  He did not suffer fools gladly one bit!  He never called me anything but "Girl".

After my Home Mass, we had a supper and my rule of life was available for anyone who would like to read it.  Also, of course, I was available for questions.

 

The other point I would like to make is that my rule takes each petition of the Our Father as subject headings.  The Our Father is a whole and total Rule of Life.

[Sponsa-Christi]

17 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

  "My own thought is that women who feel called to live as privately-vowed laypeople should probably err on the side of being discreet about their commitment. Mainly, this is because I think it’s important not to confuse the faithful, and someone who was very open about making a private vow could easily tend to give the impression that she was in some sort of canonical state of consecrated life."

Just for some quick clarification, by "erring on the side of being discreet," I don't mean that privately-vowed people shouldn't tell their family and friends about their commitment. "Discreet" doesn't mean "totally secret," and obviously it makes sense to be open about such an important aspect of your life with the people you are closet to. 

Also, I first wrote that blog post many years ago. I haven't really changed my mind or anything, but my views have (naturally) become more nuanced, and the culture has also had some gradual changes. So I now think there could be some situations when it might make sense for a privately-vowed person to be more open about their commitment. E.g., perhaps by describing themselves as: "I'm single, but I'm a serious Catholic and I have made a personal private commitment to celibacy as part of my spirituality." I do think it would be a good thing if private vows were more normalized in the Catholic world. 

I still do think that it's important to make it clear that private vows aren't the same as consecrated virginity or religious life, though! Privately-vowed women, if they choose to share about their private vows, should be careful not to talk about their vocation in such a way that makes it sound as if they were a CV. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Sponsa-Christi

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

I do think it would be a good thing if private vows were more normalized in the Catholic world. 

Absolutely!

40 minutes ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

should be careful not to talk about their vocation in such a way that makes it sound as if they were a CV. 

Also most important that Private Vows do not in any way whatsoever distinguish one from normal ordinary Laity.  It is a call and vocation to the Laity in ordinary secular life and the temporal order.    I think that anything else makes the vocation something that it most definitely is not.

No one at all knew of my private vows except my SD and myself.  I first 'came out' on Phatmass many years ago - and my Home Mass was 5 years ago now.  The reason I came out was because I had lurked on Phatmass for a long time without joining until a thread came up where it was strongly argued that there was no such thing as a vocation and call to private vows.   I then joined to contribute to the thread.

 

I don't know why there persists something sort of secretive about private vows.  One simply has to remember that actions have consequences.  Sometimes consequences can be quite positive and at other times quite negative.

[Guest]

 

 

What is a Synod?

https://aleteia.org/2021/10/08/what-is-a-synod-in-the-catholic-church/?utm_campaign=NL_en&utm_content=NL_en&utm_medium=mail&utm_source=daily_newsletter

[Guest]

 

 

                                                  

St Therese discovered the Heart of The Gospel as Love.  If Love is the Heart, then the Lifeblood is Simplicity.  I was so tied up in spiritual complex knots, then I read the autobiography of St Therese and almost suddenly all fell into place and knots just vanished.

Read online https://ccel.org/ccel/therese/autobio/autobio.i.html

Autobiography of St. Therese of

ST. THÉRÈSE OF LISIEUX

THE STORY OF A SOUL (L'HISTOIRE D'UNE ÂME):

THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF

ST. THÉRÈSE OF LISIEUX

WITH ADDITIONAL WRITINGS
AND SAYINGS OF ST. THÉRÈSE

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

 

Pope Francis: "Faith is not a transactional relationship with God" https://www.catholicnews.com/faith-is-not-a-transactional-relationship-with-god-Pope-says-at-angelus/

[Guest]

I am still around the joint.  Just having health struggles - nothing serious. 

[Guest]

Lyrics

https://www.google.com/search?q=lyrics+tell+me+a+story+before+i+go+to+bed&oq=lyrics+tell+me+a+story&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30l8.5432j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Tell me a story tell me a story
Tell me a story remember what you said
You promised me you said you would
You gotta give in so i'll be good
Tell me a story then i'll go to bed
Oh worry worry weary ends ma day
Comes the time to go home
Without ma raise in pay
Home by the fire where a man can just relax
Slippers there by the chair
Not a worry not a care
Along comes junior swinging his little axe
Tell me a story tell me a story
Tell me a story remember what you said
Tell me about the birds and bees
How do you make a chicken sneeze
Tell me a story then i'll go to bed
Came so late one evening last july
Played a little the poker the time had passed me by
Shoes in my hand and my darlin wife in bed
Up the stairs sayin a prayer
Then a voice comes through the air
Hi there daddy remember what you said
Tell me a story tell me a story
Tell me how your eyes are glassed
Because it's only if your bad
Tell me a story then i'll go to bed
Once a upon a time i remember long ago
Don't go back in years through your memories kinda slow
Stop your noisy talkin till i've finished with ma tale
Once upon
Upon a what
Upon your back you'll get a swat
Tell me about the fishy cause it's bigger than a whale
Tell me a story tell me a story
Tell me a story remember what you said
You promised me you said you would
You gotta give so i'll be good
Here's a tale you'll never forget
Whack whack whack
Ouch ma tails all red
And now get off to bed
Aw come on daddy tell me a story hee hee

Edited October 23, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

  

https://dailygospel.org/AM/gospel?utm_source=newsletter

St Catherine was a Dominican Tertiary.  Back in the 14th century Third Order members did or could wear the religious habit of their particular Religious Order.  Today most often they wear secular clothing.

Above link for today's Gospel ......and...........

Scroll down for St Catherine of Siena commentary on "The Gift of Conformity to Christ" : "My mercy and love lend them time (…)"

[Shelby]

Hi Barbara! 

Thank you for explaining what your day to day is like. I came on here and read your message a week ago, and it got me thinking deeply, what my life rule should be. 

But, I haven't figured it out yet...

Yes, I'm eligible for being a  consecrated virgin. But, I don't know if I have the personality for it. I'm rather reserve, and have a small group of friends at Church. I don't think I would be a good candidate... 

On 10/7/2021 at 10:26 PM, Sponsa-Christi said:

Just for some quick clarification, by "erring on the side of being discreet," I don't mean that privately-vowed people shouldn't tell their family and friends about their commitment. "Discreet" doesn't mean "totally secret," and obviously it makes sense to be open about such an important aspect of your life with the people you are closet to. 

Also, I first wrote that blog post many years ago. I haven't really changed my mind or anything, but my views have (naturally) become more nuanced, and the culture has also had some gradual changes. So I now think there could be some situations when it might make sense for a privately-vowed person to be more open about their commitment. E.g., perhaps by describing themselves as: "I'm single, but I'm a serious Catholic and I have made a personal private commitment to celibacy as part of my spirituality." I do think it would be a good thing if private vows were more normalized in the Catholic world. 

I still do think that it's important to make it clear that private vows aren't the same as consecrated virginity or religious life, though! Privately-vowed women, if they choose to share about their private vows, should be careful not to talk about their vocation in such a way that makes it sound as if they were a CV. 

I will defiantly use that, 

"I'm single, but I'm a serious Catholic and I have made a personal private commitment to celibacy as part of my spirituality." 

I did knew, you have to make it clear that you aren't a consecrated virgin but I wasn't sure how to say it to people. 

 

[Guest]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:56 PM, Sponsa-Christi said:

 

I just, yet AGAIN, fell over  something: a post by Sponsa Christi and quoted it, then suddenly it was gone.  

I would like to underscore that if I mention I am under private vows, I always add firmly that I am NOT a religious sister nor nun, of any kind whatsoever. I am just an ordinary lay woman, a face in the pews as it were,  Private vows do mean that one does remain an ordinary faithful Cathollic in the Laity.  One is committed to the apostolate and mission of the Laity as per https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici.html along with any and all baptized Catholics.  That is the very essential intrinsic nature of my private vows to evangelical counsels.  Our (and my) mission and apostolate as Laity is to the Temporal or Secular Sphere.  My particular call by God to private vows is a call to the Temporal or Secular Sphere.  However, should one discern that the vocation is to the spiritual sphere within The Church not strictly to The Temporal Sphere, it is quite valid.  If The Church did make private vows inclusive somehow in consecrated life, I would never embrace it.  My very specific vocation and mission is to remain fully in the Laity with a particular call to the temporal sphere.  That does not mean that I do not address spirituality within The Church, but my personal specific call is to the Temporal Sphere not specifically the Spiritual Sphere.  However, every single human being including Pope down cannot be alive without the Temporal Sphere be it minor or major involvement.  Hence in addressing spirituality under private vows in no way means not to be involved AT ALL in the spiritual sphere as vocation and mission.

If I do have to make a statement re my private vows, I am very careful indeed to explain it, just so the person will not conclude things that are totally incorrect.  It is very important too to underscore the "Private" in "private vows" is a Canon Law definition.  In no way does it actually mean that private vows are to be kept private as a secular term, unless the person making the vows discerned such for themselves only.  I really would not say anything more unless questions were asked.  But everything depends on circumstances in which one is involved.  And every action has a reaction or cause and effect are ALWAYS continually in motion.

The Mass and Holy Communion, daily Prayer - are central and essential, including during discernment.  They are ALWAYS essential and central for all vocations includingunLaity.  However, there is a sort of particular importance to be affirmed/underscored  in the discernment process.

Private vows is no easy way out.  It is in fact very difficult, extremely difficult.  I would never advise a person to make private vows without holy, sound and educated spiritual direction and on a continual basis.  To never make private vows to the evangelical counsels unless one fully understood what one is doing.  One continues to grow in insight into more full understanding of one's vocation.  That journey will only end at death.

For the very reason that some people think and advocate that private vows should be kept private etc. is the very reason so many Catholics are so very wrong and all screwed up about private vows.........the Church has officially said quite a bit about private vows, problem is that comments are dotted here and there in various documents, even those not specifically addressing private vows. rather it can be documents on Consecrated Life.  If they published a Document on private vows specifically, I doubt if it would make an impression on many ordinary Laity.  I am yet to meet a quite ordinary practising Catholic familiar with a very important Document such as the vocation and apostolate of Laity - as linked somewhere in this Post/   It is not culpable ignorance.  Life for faithful ordinary Catholics in the ordinary Laity out here is filled with stress on many levels  i.e. they just do not have the time to read these lengthy Documents out of Rome.  I am ok, I live alone and am privately vowed - the rug as it were is slowly being pulled out more and more  Also, there is very real concern by Rome at the decline in consecrated life and Holy Orders and I know there are fears that perhaps many would be swayed against a vocation to consecrated life or Holy Orders.  I don't know where their Faith is  ".....and on this Church, I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".  Added to that is God's Permissive and God's direct will, both under the umbrella of "God's Will", which underscores God's Love and Concern for His Church.  They are largely ignorant too of the "Final Days" or pre the Return of Jesus - it will not be a time of "WOW! I am so happy!" but more possibly, the complete opposite - a time of severe suffering, trial and test..  That too is fully explained in the Catechism including explanation of God's Will.  That severe suffering pre The Return could last 5, 10, up to many years indeed - thousands of years even and even more than that.  The pre Return of Jesus we are already living through.  There is no way of knowing when or how long these terrible times might last, nor how even more terrible they can get specifically for Catholics.  It is all in The Father's heart and mind.  Even Jesus aid that He cannot predict when His Return will be "only The Father knows".

I will try next time to give links to the above Post where links do exist in Church Documents or in the Catholic Catechism.

Well, if you have read right through this Post to this point, you really deserve a gold medal. 

 

, :

 

[Guest]

I must add that Jesus could return even tonight, tomorrow - or even in the next minute.  We do not know and should not need to know since Jesus tells us only The Father knows.  In other words, it is none of our business whatsoever - an absolute impossibility to all without exception.  We plod along happily in the dark either in will or emotion - best of all, as a human experience, we plod happily along in the dark in both will and emotion.  Apparently, plodding along in the dark in will alone is witnessing to and is most favoured by God - because we are obviously indeed plodding along in the dark for Love of Him, not for a good feeling or feelings.  If it happens that it is emotional only "Eureka!" - and if it does not happen, then ideally "Eureka!" again, i.e.growing in Unity with God's Will.  That journey as insight and understanding of God's Will journey never ends until death too.

Edited October 28, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

Satan is Prince of the air (Temporal Sphere), but fear not, for Jesus has overcome Satan. That is, Jesus can ALWAYS go far better -  meaning Jesus ALWAYS can overcome the works of Satan, no matter how extreme, however evil.  Jesus can always overcome evil with good and no matter how extreme, how evil.