Making Out

[PhuturePriest]

I admire your strength. I wouldnt be able to do that.

 

Keep in mind I've never been in a serious relationship before. :P But I want to be able to say that if I ever get married, the only person I ever kissed was my wife.

[CrossCuT]

Keep in mind I've never been in a serious relationship before. :P But I want to be able to say that if I ever get married, the only person I ever kissed was my wife.

I think a lot of the ideas you hold about a relationship may change once youre in one.

For instance, I hated the idea of showing too much PDA...even to the point that I didnt want to hold hands. 

 

But now I realize that I really enjoy it. Still dont like too much PDA but hand holding is ok. This is a tiny example but you know what I mean.

[PhuturePriest]

I think a lot of the ideas you hold about a relationship may change once youre in one.

For instance, I hated the idea of showing too much PDA...even to the point that I didnt want to hold hands. 

 

But now I realize that I really enjoy it. Still dont like too much PDA but hand holding is ok. This is a tiny example but you know what I mean.

 

Of course. And I may change my mind, but I doubt I will. Saving my first kiss for marriage means a lot to me for a very particular reason not appropriate on an open forum. :P

Edited February 21, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Deus te Amat]

Can people refrain from using the red "Edited by moderator" text? A mod who reads this would go off and research to see what happened (why the edits were made without a note; I just did that). We get enough work to do ... thank you very much :).

Just a note... All posts that have actually been edited say "edited by" at the bottom. Not even a mod can get around that.

They were just having fun. People have been doing the red text thing for years. I believe that MIKolbe was rather fond of it.

/endOffTopic


Edited because of autocorrect,


See? Edited February 21, 2014 by Deus_te_Amat

[Basilisa Marie]

I think part of this has to do with the fact that most people, including Catholics, are getting married later in life than before. It used to be that the average age of marriage was in one's early 20s, now it's closer to your early 30s. There used to be not a whole lot of time between dating and marriage, and now we've got this group of young adults that doesn't really have any age-appropriate tools to deal with chastity. Theoretically many of these people are no longer teens who are pretty much incapable of stopping themselves if they get in too deep. Wouldn't at least some of these people have an easier time of establishing boundaries?  It just seems a littler ridiculous to give our rhetoric the underlying assumption that kissing automatically leads to "something else" when we're talking about adults, not adolescents. Or maybe it's appropriate to assume the same physical boundaries, because a more mature person would want to avoid even occasions of sin? 

I don't know. On one hand the generally anti-kissing argument makes a lot of logical sense to me, but on the other hand it doesn't feel like that reflects experience, it feels weirdly unreasonable to expect no one to give their serious boyfriend or girlfriend any more than a peck you'd give your grandmother. If we take the anti-kissing argument seriously, then I believe we have to get more realistic and stop expecting newlyweds to be able to "do everything" right away, like flipping a switch. 

[Lil Red]

Just a note... All posts that have actually been edited say "edited by" at the bottom. Not even a mod can get around that.

They were just having fun. People have been doing the red text thing for years. I believe that MIKolbe was rather fond of it.

/endOffTopic


Edited because of autocorrect,


See?

 

exactly. 

[Lil Red]

I think someone should write up a chaste kissing guide and include all the consequences of your actions in red ink with flames around it. Maybe some sparkles...

And then add a voice playback that tells you how indecent of a person you are.

 

It should be hung up in peoples houses so that whenever you start kissing or even think about it, youll be reminded of your sinful ways and avoid the flames of you know where.

 

i legit laughed out loud. i might have also snorted. :| 

[CrossCuT]

i legit laughed out loud. i might have also snorted. :|

 

Haha! This thread started to turn into an "Jimminy Crickets Sally, kissing is the work of the devil!"

 

I was also tired and feeling mildly cynical.

[Lil Red]

Haha! This thread started to turn into an "Jimminy Crickets Sally, kissing is the work of the devil!"

 

:hehe:  bwahahahahahahahahahaha  :hehe2:

[brandelynmarie]

Just a note... All posts that have actually been edited say "edited by" at the bottom. Not even a mod can get around that.

They were just having fun. People have been doing the red text thing for years.

Huh, all these years I've been on here & I've never noticed!







(What else have I not noticed? :unsure: )

[KnightofChrist]

I still fail to see how the proponents of "making out" have proven their position. The Church teaches that the unmarried must remain chase, chastity in continence, which doesn't just mean avoiding sex, but other intimately sensual and sexual acts as well. How is a make out session aka 'french kissing' chaste? How is sensually sticking one's tongue into mouth of someone else and visa versa an act that is chaste? How is that not an act that is unchaste? It seems a very sensual and very intimate act that should belong only to the married.

[Maggyie]

For some people though, (including me,) making out and french kissing are too arousing to handle. Sounds like my odds of finding a husband got significantly reduced.

Well it's just one more limiting factor. I had a lot of limiting factors in my search for a spouse - a single, Catholic man who was eligible for marriage, willing to wait to have sex, who didn't want to use contraception even after marriage. I had additional preferences that he be college educated, employed or employable, between the ages of 20 and 30 (I was 23 at the time) and live within 2 hours of me. Nothing out of the ordinary right?

Well guess what. Catholics are only a quarter of the population to begin with, and half of them are women. Of the males, many are children still, very elderly, married, divorced without possibility of annulment, or in the priesthood. Slice off another 50 percent or so (I'm being generous).

Of the remaining number of men, how many believe in waiting for marriage? Let's say 25%. Again I'm being very generous. How many won't ask you to use contraception after marriage? Another cut, a big one. More than 90% of Catholics use contraception.

Now you need to find in this very small group a man who also doesn't want to KISS before marriage. I have no statistics but it's probably another big cut. You're probably looking in a group of 1% of Catholics. In America in the thousands, not millions.

This isn't taking into account whether you'd prefer your husband to be mentally healthy, in a particular age range, reasonably attractive, or capable of supporting a family. Those aren't even taken into account yet.

Bottom line, pursuing the vocation of marriage is a massive challenge for a devout Catholic woman. We don't need to make it any harder than it already is. There is an extreme shortage of men in the marriage market... I finally found my husband when I started dedicating hours to my search every week.

[PhuturePriest]

Well it's just one more limiting factor. I had a lot of limiting factors in my search for a spouse - a single, Catholic man who was eligible for marriage, willing to wait to have sex, who didn't want to use contraception even after marriage. I had additional preferences that he be college educated, employed or employable, between the ages of 20 and 30 (I was 23 at the time) and live within 2 hours of me. Nothing out of the ordinary right?

Well guess what. Catholics are only a quarter of the population to begin with, and half of them are women. Of the males, many are children still, very elderly, married, divorced without possibility of annulment, or in the priesthood. Slice off another 50 percent or so (I'm being generous).

Of the remaining number of men, how many believe in waiting for marriage? Let's say 25%. Again I'm being very generous. How many won't ask you to use contraception after marriage? Another cut, a big one. More than 90% of Catholics use contraception.

Now you need to find in this very small group a man who also doesn't want to KISS before marriage. I have no statistics but it's probably another big cut. You're probably looking in a group of 1% of Catholics. In America in the thousands, not millions.

This isn't taking into account whether you'd prefer your husband to be mentally healthy, in a particular age range, reasonably attractive, or capable of supporting a family. Those aren't even taken into account yet.

Bottom line, pursuing the vocation of marriage is a massive challenge for a devout Catholic woman. We don't need to make it any harder than it already is. There is an extreme shortage of men in the marriage market... I finally found my husband when I started dedicating hours to my search every week.

 

I feel very privileged being a man. I can count at least thirty single devout Catholic girls, but now that I think about it, I can only name about eight guys (Including myself) who fit your list (Minus the college part because we're high schoolers).

[Basilisa Marie]

I still fail to see how the proponents of "making out" have proven their position. The Church teaches that the unmarried must remain chase, chastity in continence, which doesn't just mean avoiding sex, but other intimately sensual and sexual acts as well. How is a make out session aka 'french kissing' chaste? How is sensually sticking one's tongue into mouth of someone else and visa versa an act that is chaste? How is that not an act that is unchaste? It seems a very sensual and very intimate act that should belong only to the married.

 

At the same time, your serious boyfriend or girlfriend is not your grandma, your relationship is different. Is that difference of relationship enough to allow for a difference in the way you physically relate to that person? 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I know its not uncommon for Russians to lock lips with close same-sex friends and family members (kinda funny considering the whole olympics thing). Since kissing can be done platonically in these contexts, I wonder whether it'd technically be sinful to make out with strangers if both parties got nothing out of it.

Here's an unrelated article about heterosexual guys kissing each other:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1324799/How-men-kissing-lips-friendship-longer-taboo.html

[Lilllabettt]

restrictive marriage pools can make it easier to find a spouse than not -- I mean statistically speaking. The pool is smaller both for you and for your future spouse who is presumably also looking. You are more likely to spot him and he is more likely to spot you. Like Maggie - she married the first person she dated.  It actually wasn't that hard for her.  The only "hard" part was finding someone TO date. She had to make a specific effort to seek out people in the pool she was interested in.  Many people without "standards" don't ever do that - and their pool is so big to begin its hard to see and be seen.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[PhuturePriest]

restrictive marriage pools can make it easier to find a spouse than not -- I mean statistically speaking. The pool is smaller both for you and for your future spouse who is presumably also looking. You are more likely to spot him and he is more likely to spot you. Like Maggie - she married the first person she dated.  It actually wasn't that hard for her.  The only "hard" part was finding someone TO date. She had to make a specific effort to seek out people in the pool she was interested in.  Many people without "standards" don't ever do that - and their pool is so big to begin its hard to see and be seen.

 

My sister married the first guy she ever dated. Lots of guys were interested in her during high school, but she had certain standards they didn't meet, plus she believed in courting rather than dating, so she said no to all of them. Then she went to college, met a guy she liked, started courting after a year of knowing him, and then now they're married. People think you won't get married unless you keep your options open, but that just leads to a lot of unsatisfied dates.

[tinytherese]

Now you need to find in this very small group a man who also doesn't want to KISS before marriage. I have no statistics but it's probably another big cut. You're probably looking in a group of 1% of Catholics. In America in the thousands, not millions.

I'm not opposed to kissing or even long kisses. It's making out and french kissing that are too arousing for me.

[abrideofChrist]

I still fail to see how the proponents of "making out" have proven their position. The Church teaches that the unmarried must remain chase, chastity in continence, which doesn't just mean avoiding sex, but other intimately sensual and sexual acts as well. How is a make out session aka 'french kissing' chaste? How is sensually sticking one's tongue into mouth of someone else and visa versa an act that is chaste? How is that not an act that is unchaste? It seems a very sensual and very intimate act that should belong only to the married.

 

Agreed.  In fact, the article I linked to previously actually has two whole sections on remote preparation for marriage and proximate preparation for marriage and the principles of morality remain the same as for teens.  Those sections point out the difference between married chastity and single chastity for adults.  Ahem.  I was waiting to see if anyone would bring this up because that would prove somebody bothered to read it, but I think people prefer to hear the sound of their own words than read something that has value.  French kissing is still off the table for unmarried adults because of its biological nature as arousing.

[oremus1]

Keep in mind I've never been in a serious relationship before. :P But I want to be able to say that if I ever get married, the only person I ever kissed was my wife.

this is so beautiful!! I will pray for this young man!

 

as long as you a) only date when you are ready for marriage (you have a job, someplace to live, money to support a pregnant woman, emotionally ready for a marriage)

 

b) have dates in public and/or with other people, spend time with your families together etc, you can be alone in like a coffee shop as other people are around,

 

c) go to mass together, or pray together before the date. sounds weird but if you know her from church, why not go out for lunch after mass together? why not go to the evening prayer group then dinner? go on church trips together? keeps you focussed

 

d) many girls will think this is extreme. but there are traditional catholic girls who may respect and even support or share your views. those same girls will also most likely support NFP, premarital chastity, homeschooling and be pro life too.

 

e) read supportive literature. if you cannot be around people who share your views and keep telling you that you are wrong, , the lack of support will make you feel you are wrong. when I was a kid I read this book http://www.joshharris.com/i_kissed_dating_goodbye.php he also wrote another one after he met his wife and they started dating: http://astore.amazon.com/joshharriscom-20/detail/1590521676/190-7718860-2203338. they are now married. he isn't catholic , he is protestant. but the books do not have much heresy and are soundly practical.

 

f) stop dating a girl as soon as you realise you don't want to marry her

 

g) there is no need to prolong dating for years. only date until you know you can marry. I know a few couples who are a bit like you and dated for about 6 months - a year before getting engaged, and 6 months later were married. then VERY shortly after, had a baby. im not saying to rush into it, but once you cut out all the physical and think of the spiritual, practical and emotional compatibility only, it is much clearer where you are going. those people married age 22 - 26 in general.

 

I think it is entirely normal and reasonable for any catholic to only have say one or two serious relationships before marriage. so what if this guy only has one and marries her? that is a great thing.

 

praised be Jesus!!!! St Ambrose, ora pro nobis!!! 

 

Edited February 21, 2014 by oremus1